From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.15.15]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5D2B93B29D for ; Tue, 18 Mar 2025 02:25:26 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmx.de; s=s31663417; t=1742279125; x=1742883925; i=moeller0@gmx.de; bh=+CnnpeYSJuwUCWTkW7wrwDXzysr86XBODAgIML4SOQc=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Date:From:To:CC:Subject:In-Reply-To:References: Message-ID:MIME-Version:Content-Type:Content-Transfer-Encoding:cc: content-transfer-encoding:content-type:date:from:message-id: mime-version:reply-to:subject:to; b=N9D6Tz66ycdCBdWrL0V3ZBUR+nrKVzsN3J0mT8K1hMBzm2zmS6W6SQ659uQSSaJU 0zNp+gywADb1+bePFqhIpn3SyTY9DKUcnVpSy0kTpFieQUZQzwskVN6NYJJWy6VSU dfbj5TZ/I9FfovgGLImPkuJqvgLkEMtIUBywIbhOZzEO5xbRXYcUcZVIg/lU17KVu onCyZJBFYs+tL2+/I/IJzA37/5OCrPpFetgLIb1a8p20YOHzUfrcB6uci4wtCJSbl mCcSGoOMROEO/s2COSR9/bwqg8MPwGr4RyS4jHXxlV4UP1C0mvx993+kzcsMrXsTB B1OFNuDVzbONeMUbuA== X-UI-Sender-Class: 724b4f7f-cbec-4199-ad4e-598c01a50d3a Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([2.241.205.161]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx004 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MysRk-1szy7D0gbq-00tQ2U; Tue, 18 Mar 2025 07:25:25 +0100 Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2025 07:25:20 +0100 From: Sebastian Moeller To: David Lang , David Lang via Starlink , Marc Blanchet CC: Starlink , 5grm-satellite@ieee.org User-Agent: K-9 Mail for Android In-Reply-To: <1oqn4685-8qsp-923n-9p4s-487rn4p65o77@ynat.uz> References: <6nn799r0-q896-4osn-23no-733oorno0p55@ynat.uz> <1oqn4685-8qsp-923n-9p4s-487rn4p65o77@ynat.uz> Message-ID: <2166BE1F-5D4D-4278-B142-369548B75292@gmx.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:mk43E8zCvQWf19uRS7TVmUJsd1e/ReGLbqL53Ygy8cyKK0ooMB7 fg9T2KjTu8lIBVLC6QwwlfDcZ9yxLfhIDrICwILDpEFzeZTpZJ+JSZOEIVKYs+7a92mwfcX aOr2xg77Cmgr41KwkY9muvCEN+xEg+JK5XQsscD7eoO5iKbBKc9WAuNsIKAXAkVucsCAYlB VLD1Aua+pvwKCyNS/DAkw== X-Spam-Flag: NO UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:eIqeO6PCjzU=;oiDv7nn121tqEMThzJRp1Vgdia3 Qq8neNY+TvwnmBrgcH5GwlqFLN+zMib4zqTgnu8hcH7MF8vpNT+LmbN5+FSk4EsJcIS9gVaWS 50Xj0Jk3wx5MCaAUWEQOuSlyHCHudjoFYDGyWSnWP9hG1JPxZqYdd8GL1qw0BuKXVdv8MPnoy JaDRGjKyr2xT7AC0sMBMnbM+14TnHtWjqHUu2NJsr//KQ4NJx7BEmwIM3AvtuLmZ7b1jnviMz 7G0JBi5M8pnXMvrSjTAu2FTHDsKE8utGc8MkPeuQhe3trsMM1wBptW64WLtUEf3RoJ250Qo5C 0B2qwfKkqsrH5bkbMugezoSLnbJS0fiLPG3WITjiP53ZSqwqoiA6cGzGiOqVyWJ1LPywj/ZDj lr9FUGC1xe3bPX/xFYugxQihPem1W2lfbQKvWvxpK7AEqoR6jWBDs9JMvOthKo36G6VrdKrT8 5MhZHiKI423Gk7xGMf5bSlrb3SJgx1/45Vn4N7Rv2Y+cmAE8+0LsmvBGsyTXjKa3Gg59zBCnu oVMgBjHaty2EQipi1bY579EZoUfPOBs3n8fNX1bOozpDo4XZ2zgclE27u8eWw62p4Zk1B6JXb uZe8t03t9xy7EWRduATFVuDN1Z1zgvS3kWeyDJ9k3FxBviLFbchEPYnf8OLm/q6722SS1YvkF aFE0I8ESLdYD/VIyH3BVJyvl8xfCdlBwRqj/LA66hYklb7oYPWpk4r5Za05Gvp4k88aEn7+kg HRSG5nZczuIRGW90Jd5qDGKjOPuzj5EAJHtICy/qtSf69HrYW2hEt0elZCeWRR/wIq0JeRC5k qbBnwsapdfxjNMucCoz09bq3Wl6m88Xh+IOjNz+cAq6jAUIdA+WMygG9J8m1IVEo8nhS/9KoJ K5QAr80ovYpIcb6A2cEQAg9Sa7q3G2cRjY/8/QGZsPcMbWQNdbB7jZqiRAa9h+slgFo/lojy2 e1+xMuODzO0Re31gL5N2d+SYNKLtIvfPBaTnY5D6ZE/f4e6CpCB1lCynw3MSWtIDc5jmCEJy/ I0Rv76gKBc6cd/p0zpIOU6mBGNAQmpw7RxrKn/xS6sdrpquXwpOtUyemhCJiDrMkmn5qDtFCu inM7tInLxO5+zYvU+N1stxwqxB+Cxk3yQupeUlOelH5DicQFevzfJLE7uN26+h23WIziy95lA DxLzgntnR1epBUFFLSclwlWSt4+6kB5mvbJyc7GfC5f51TZNgn34SDx78KHTfI64cC13udVvv yb2qLZ5mCN2WQdeB2GYBWnAjqJNauqvS4DPN+UZD8V3lbUR1JgFgnJoXu6Z/5Rt649W+QWiMO dLJ3r59pEM0mb6rv8aRfsVcYUCbcwLUkkjDJl18UpGezUxE3ZNCRTOw9Ujk0YXiTQyMDKHQyT 7axp75feBOOoJF0aRBTB9Wk7NiheDA6AP0ocjDftNpan1I2oL5JLPZ8yxhKLCcLVu9JWU0IqI UiXCCQlTc755WszoAjeZwUmGL8SM= Subject: Re: [Starlink] Alphabet spins off Starlink competitor Taara X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 18 Mar 2025 06:25:26 -0000 On 18 March 2025 01:49:17 CET, David Lang via Starlink wrote: >Marc Blanchet wrote: > >>> On Mar 17, 2025, at 18:50, David Lang via Starlink wrote: >>>=20 >>> Hesham ElBakoury wrote: >>>=20 >>>> https://www=2Etheverge=2Ecom/news/631049/alphabet-spins-off-starlink-= competitor-taara?mc_cid=3D1a1e15a2db&mc_eid=3D105d343de1 >>>=20 >>> Interesting, a laser in a professionally installed/aligned tower is go= ing to be able to have a higher bandwidth than the starlink dishy=2E >>>=20 >>> but the claim that it will be far cheaper than Starlink?? that tower a= nd a ground station that tracks the satellites in real time is going to be = FAR more expensive than a dishy=2E Since it's going to be in motion at all = times, it's got mechanical parts to wear out, and physically re-aiming a la= ser between connections (on both ends) is going to be a lot slower than ele= ctronic aiming of a phased array antenna=2E >>=20 >> Either I don't understand the article or your comment=2E But my interpr= etation of the article is that it is "just" (ground) lasers for trunk links= between (ground) towers=2E No satellite involved=2E It is a replacement of= either fibre or radio between (cell) towers=2E > >Since it kept talking about being a replacement for Starlink,=20 [SM] Over here this was argued more that this might be complementary to st= arlink in a sense, as it might allow relative quick responses to e=2Eg=2E e= xtend/replace damaged/overloaded links after say a disaster, but for more d= ensely populated areas were starlink can run into overload easily=2E While = in less dense rural areas LEO internet would be the better choice=2E Howeve= r, I would guess the real reason for the comparison in the press might be t= hat google's press release might have pitched something along those lines t= o nip the idea pro actively in the butt that this would have no utility giv= en starlinks existence, but I have not looked into that material myself=2E= =2E=2E > I assumed that the towers would communicate with satellites=2E If there = are no satellites being used, then it's not going to be a Starlink competit= or as you would have to build a long chain of laser towers to try and provi= de service everywhere=2E > >David Lang > >> Marc=2E >>=20 >>>=20 >>> As a community gateway where a lot of people share a single satellite = connection, it could work, but even there I question if it would be cheaper= =2E >>>=20 >>> There's also the question of the cost of satellites=2E Are they willin= g to take the Starlink approach of cheap satellites? or are they still thin= king 'industry standard' where each satellite is far bigger, heavier, and m= ore expensive? >>>=20 >>> David Lang >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Starlink mailing list >>> Starlink@lists=2Ebufferbloat=2Enet >>> https://lists=2Ebufferbloat=2Enet/listinfo/starlink >>=20 >>=20 >_______________________________________________ >Starlink mailing list >Starlink@lists=2Ebufferbloat=2Enet >https://lists=2Ebufferbloat=2Enet/listinfo/starlink --=20 Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail=2E Please excuse my brevity=2E