From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.15.15]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E16653CB37 for ; Tue, 25 Jun 2024 03:26:30 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmx.de; s=s31663417; t=1719300379; x=1719905179; i=moeller0@gmx.de; bh=lLoUuHyHt1TvpzjaXEBb49JdkHNlYgD2l2fRomb97Xk=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Content-Type:Mime-Version:Subject:From: In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:Content-Transfer-Encoding:Message-Id: References:To:cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type:date:from: message-id:mime-version:reply-to:subject:to; b=rUomOE7QxXp6CG5L+Hpp/26z3aYYzsxGZ5gLgK8xb6aAwPhZKZU4d2Hr3SMqbv5l ov1PIdXNsT/0cpOsg3WaS7uL8AX8Jeg2sKi1K3QlOmCkRO6dUERNIaoXqKnjbcEBs FeCxIV75vRugzeYYE35kW/53wGHn2WTIqz7OQd9oqNH5mLvPdYELVXTBk7NUpfowC JVrxkiGrZGIkidv0INCOB9MaiOHDvxHhhZe6nePH01JiqBXn834aO1CipxFgf4igX JlIoYM9Ce6PF9FvSItvCJQYxyhDzDquIxkyZAtBDbojjlSlO3SLgAIwA8IiGwzUqp NYYmOSKj+q7mVW5r8A== X-UI-Sender-Class: 724b4f7f-cbec-4199-ad4e-598c01a50d3a Received: from smtpclient.apple ([134.76.241.253]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx004 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MVvPD-1rwswx3hO1-00RQE0; Tue, 25 Jun 2024 09:26:18 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3774.600.62\)) From: Sebastian Moeller In-Reply-To: Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2024 09:26:05 +0200 Cc: David Lang , David Lang via Starlink , Ulrich Speidel Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <2BF2613D-BDB4-4309-A1DF-43544AF5CD4A@gmx.de> References: <29b64dbf-34c4-4616-9724-9c79bdcc1bb4@auckland.ac.nz> <1p491rss-599n-n211-op44-1npn41p68005@ynat.uz> <974AF92C-907B-43A3-AC41-449FBAA5EFAE@gmx.de> To: Gert Doering X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3774.600.62) X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:MY1o/V3Fm/cMdPdAusnQuxgIA1RgMBhZrReMoBpFzCai1n/wujm 3r9YNrrd6nfsPPJhGFtqXyRkXZOyvI/Lw9HYN8imb0H3+xCID5Nd6DcYwBMTIxvkG3EPe5K 83oY1Zi/3vySJgWhK3ahuHMfNkrLRt71QcrLTc7buUhiVjgNnevypfC8/wsV8VCM7q0n/ox Ixmwt//Yki1o3kpZ4dfrw== X-Spam-Flag: NO UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:VnRyoUCn46g=;L1l+SK5UU/Za2fJsgCn863sLioq 561JkEGGJHyxYEQkr88o9rW8Z6zsQnxU6si/kJoqW8Xo1csrEYbb1SA2i1pF0R4WAFIdyOIFH OoIU/X0Pv9ogNWHFnnYY+d0oWBwZvxBvG3+YYu8Mg23n3KY2iOpQP9kTdSe5LBgmEfvRl9c+m yJ4yqSwnnA3+x7bZQjIrGmnq8YKf9ig+zvQ+lXjNh01HnV9SfgKJhURz1xT0Bbo2xMYbm0qpm DsBFGjnTkBU4ladsyn8arb/trg0NpQl14bjIBDPdVUoHV5rqwNJg9FHdbUjEPANb53MNfipuQ FGb1UOxHiZQ0FrtzMS5Qaxpo8Y1V4X3nKEu8wuZ5/Dj2O7yhuSVVw03U5FzgJ+aqpRyEf4ECH gJsGZxG2c/HPMe/HEApwQfFlA6wH2GRX3TZzEmqvuiKCFxyFDcB5MNIB5uqL0ocUC7g2NKbUz IvLqhIOqum08P2QibTDfhzwu1FJ2HI5OQj/iMY5gsJFjr6G5XE4sZ4TTPlqZ5isLxxBsdQjHE iNL9rtB+UJu4PjG4QR0h5dJbaSXjsGe4BmYdssEAYs9GfXfspZMAavqfdseEwg4DqYlrDMmlI nQLdCilyMTNC1wWE7YzD1Le+B0p6cYW0hbUqZBUP8BNbyxlCnn5JZA4gL86iR5ZxbW/S8vaTZ FxuN6WirqVjAPbgbPHL5WNb4SPoMC4Xl0czuwYWVrszoEbgRjjnDbRR9Qq8VRLCHE/blSIBt5 bdRcq/Bccj5f77NhePAdDBOb396pP3K/fgtKFpzt9z7tMhki0C2oIYsHNI1qMUHUi0xF8/j4o 2VmpUWkLHS/omaV5jWCG5W6CeZ2eEjCklxX+2vIsoZLMw= Subject: Re: [Starlink] Jamaican Starlink Outages and a hint of shared infrastructure X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 25 Jun 2024 07:26:31 -0000 Hi Gert, > On 25. Jun 2024, at 08:54, Gert Doering wrote: >=20 > Hi, >=20 > On Tue, Jun 25, 2024 at 07:37:40AM +0200, Sebastian Moeller via = Starlink wrote: >> My understanding is routing mostly follows the path of least cost... = and is more complex then BGP makes it look, if two ASs have multiple = handover points one still needs to pick one for each flow... and even = for a simple route between two AS the forward and reverse path might use = different hand-over points... think hot-potato routing. >=20 > This is true, but BGP offers sufficient knobs to help in situations > where the "naive" algorithms would fail to find the actual best path > (for some definition of "best" - bandwidth, latency, monetary cost, = ...). >=20 > It gets more problematic when money or politics get in the way of=20 > "build good networks" - like, two major transit ISPs refusing to peer > with each other, because both assert the other one should buy from > them... and customers of both suffer. Indeed, however these customers are part of the problem in a sense, as = if customers would simply drop these two like a hot potato for exactly = that reason, I am sure these two might be willing to come together over = a cake perhaps ( = h++ps://eu-images.contentstack.com/v3/assets/blt8eb3cdfc1fce5194/blt87f536= 7a512efb22/664b33f657aac63927f84866/Hurricane-Cake.jpg?width=3D700&auto=3D= webp&quality=3D80&disable=3Dupscale )? Sorry for fudging the URL, but my mail service helpfully marks outgoing = posts with (too many?) URLs as spam and the list server will reject my = posts... >=20 > Gert Doering > -- NetMaster > --=20 > have you enabled IPv6 on something today...? >=20 > SpaceNet AG Vorstand: Sebastian v. Bomhard, Ingo = Lalla, > Karin Schuler, Sebastian = Cler > Joseph-Dollinger-Bogen 14 Aufsichtsratsvors.: A. = Grundner-Culemann > D-80807 Muenchen HRB: 136055 (AG Muenchen) > Tel: +49 (0)89/32356-444 USt-IdNr.: DE813185279