* [Starlink] Measuring a Low-Earth-Orbit Satellite Network [not found] <CAHn=e4gXDRmiEOrSSm5GQRSbFDNS7Rz9L9C2VsMhoBYHgFHhtQ@mail.gmail.com> @ 2023-08-17 14:47 ` Dave Taht 2023-08-17 16:42 ` Dave Taht 0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread From: Dave Taht @ 2023-08-17 14:47 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Dave Taht via Starlink This paper, at first glance, looks really, really good, measuring detailed topology of the starlink network: https://arxiv.org/abs/2307.06863 Thank you J Pan for passing it along! ---------- Forwarded message --------- From: J Pan <Pan@uvic.ca> Date: Wed, Aug 16, 2023 at 11:02 PM Subject: starlink To: dave.taht@gmail.com <dave.taht@gmail.com> Hi Dave: thanks for your libreqos work. did you see https://arxiv.org/abs/2307.06863 ? cheers. -j -- J Pan, UVic CSc, ECS566, 250-472-5796 (NO VM), Pan@UVic.CA, Web.UVic.CA/~pan -- Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxmoBr4cBKg Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: [Starlink] Measuring a Low-Earth-Orbit Satellite Network 2023-08-17 14:47 ` [Starlink] Measuring a Low-Earth-Orbit Satellite Network Dave Taht @ 2023-08-17 16:42 ` Dave Taht 2023-09-15 10:58 ` Alexandre Petrescu 0 siblings, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread From: Dave Taht @ 2023-08-17 16:42 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Dave Taht via Starlink On Thu, Aug 17, 2023 at 7:47 AM Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote: > > This paper, at first glance, looks really, really good, measuring > detailed topology of the starlink network: > https://arxiv.org/abs/2307.06863 > > Thank you J Pan for passing it along! More recent data here: https://www.reddit.com/r/StarlinkEngineering/comments/15p76j4/impressive_improvement_in_three_months_no_longer/ > > > ---------- Forwarded message --------- > From: J Pan <Pan@uvic.ca> > Date: Wed, Aug 16, 2023 at 11:02 PM > Subject: starlink > To: dave.taht@gmail.com <dave.taht@gmail.com> > > > Hi Dave: thanks for your libreqos work. did you see > https://arxiv.org/abs/2307.06863 ? cheers. -j > -- > J Pan, UVic CSc, ECS566, 250-472-5796 (NO VM), Pan@UVic.CA, Web.UVic.CA/~pan > > > -- > Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxmoBr4cBKg > Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos -- Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxmoBr4cBKg Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: [Starlink] Measuring a Low-Earth-Orbit Satellite Network 2023-08-17 16:42 ` Dave Taht @ 2023-09-15 10:58 ` Alexandre Petrescu 2023-09-15 17:44 ` David Lang 2023-09-15 18:03 ` Dave Taht 0 siblings, 2 replies; 6+ messages in thread From: Alexandre Petrescu @ 2023-09-15 10:58 UTC (permalink / raw) To: starlink Le 17/08/2023 à 18:42, Dave Taht via Starlink a écrit : > On Thu, Aug 17, 2023 at 7:47 AM Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote: >> This paper, at first glance, looks really, really good, measuring >> detailed topology of the starlink network: >> https://arxiv.org/abs/2307.06863 >> >> Thank you J Pan for passing it along! > More recent data here: > https://www.reddit.com/r/StarlinkEngineering/comments/15p76j4/impressive_improvement_in_three_months_no_longer/ Sorry but I do not understand the graphs. The URL sounds great. For my part, I can tell that I follow one particular sat chosen arbitrarily (STARLINK-6064) on a public database since some weeks now and it keeps at around 360km altitude. That is much lower than 500-or-so usual. Maybe it is that lower altitude that permits a higher performance (lower latencies). (there are other sats even lower, but not sure whether they're there in error or on their way up). Alex > >> >> ---------- Forwarded message --------- >> From: J Pan <Pan@uvic.ca> >> Date: Wed, Aug 16, 2023 at 11:02 PM >> Subject: starlink >> To: dave.taht@gmail.com <dave.taht@gmail.com> >> >> >> Hi Dave: thanks for your libreqos work. did you see >> https://arxiv.org/abs/2307.06863 ? cheers. -j >> -- >> J Pan, UVic CSc, ECS566, 250-472-5796 (NO VM), Pan@UVic.CA, Web.UVic.CA/~pan >> >> >> -- >> Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxmoBr4cBKg >> Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos > > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: [Starlink] Measuring a Low-Earth-Orbit Satellite Network 2023-09-15 10:58 ` Alexandre Petrescu @ 2023-09-15 17:44 ` David Lang 2023-09-15 18:03 ` Dave Taht 1 sibling, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread From: David Lang @ 2023-09-15 17:44 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Alexandre Petrescu; +Cc: starlink [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 1458 bytes --] On Fri, 15 Sep 2023, Alexandre Petrescu via Starlink wrote: > For my part, I can tell that I follow one particular sat chosen > arbitrarily (STARLINK-6064) on a public database since some weeks now > and it keeps at around 360km altitude. That is much lower than > 500-or-so usual. Maybe it is that lower altitude that permits a higher > performance (lower latencies). Interesting, their phase 2 satellites will be in 335-245Km orbits, but the databases I've looked at don't show any of them being launched yet > (there are other sats even lower, but not sure whether they're there in > error or on their way up). I've seen some lists showing sats at 70km, which is well below the definition of 'in space', so some of those numbers are just plain wrong. David Lang > Alex > >> >>> >>> ---------- Forwarded message --------- >>> From: J Pan <Pan@uvic.ca> >>> Date: Wed, Aug 16, 2023 at 11:02 PM >>> Subject: starlink >>> To: dave.taht@gmail.com <dave.taht@gmail.com> >>> >>> >>> Hi Dave: thanks for your libreqos work. did you see >>> https://arxiv.org/abs/2307.06863 ? cheers. -j >>> -- >>> J Pan, UVic CSc, ECS566, 250-472-5796 (NO VM), Pan@UVic.CA, > Web.UVic.CA/~pan >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxmoBr4cBKg >>> Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Starlink mailing list > Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink > ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: [Starlink] Measuring a Low-Earth-Orbit Satellite Network 2023-09-15 10:58 ` Alexandre Petrescu 2023-09-15 17:44 ` David Lang @ 2023-09-15 18:03 ` Dave Taht 2023-09-21 12:26 ` Alexandre Petrescu 1 sibling, 1 reply; 6+ messages in thread From: Dave Taht @ 2023-09-15 18:03 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Alexandre Petrescu; +Cc: starlink, J Pan [-- Attachment #1: Type: text/plain, Size: 2211 bytes --] On Fri, Sep 15, 2023 at 3:58 AM Alexandre Petrescu via Starlink < starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote: > > Le 17/08/2023 à 18:42, Dave Taht via Starlink a écrit : > > On Thu, Aug 17, 2023 at 7:47 AM Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com> wrote: > >> This paper, at first glance, looks really, really good, measuring > >> detailed topology of the starlink network: > >> https://arxiv.org/abs/2307.06863 > >> > >> Thank you J Pan for passing it along! > > More recent data here: > > > https://www.reddit.com/r/StarlinkEngineering/comments/15p76j4/impressive_improvement_in_three_months_no_longer/ > > Sorry but I do not understand the graphs. The URL sounds great. > > I have cc´d the author. > For my part, I can tell that I follow one particular sat chosen > arbitrarily (STARLINK-6064) on a public database since some weeks now > and it keeps at around 360km altitude. That is much lower than > 500-or-so usual. Maybe it is that lower altitude that permits a higher > performance (lower latencies). > Pretty neat! > > (there are other sats even lower, but not sure whether they're there in > error or on their way up). > this was really good: https://radionavlab.ae.utexas.edu/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/starlink_structure.pdf Getting more correlated results from two or more stations in the same cell would help. > Alex > > > > >> > >> ---------- Forwarded message --------- > >> From: J Pan <Pan@uvic.ca> > >> Date: Wed, Aug 16, 2023 at 11:02 PM > >> Subject: starlink > >> To: dave.taht@gmail.com <dave.taht@gmail.com> > >> > >> > >> Hi Dave: thanks for your libreqos work. did you see > >> https://arxiv.org/abs/2307.06863 ? cheers. -j > >> -- > >> J Pan, UVic CSc, ECS566, 250-472-5796 (NO VM), Pan@UVic.CA, > Web.UVic.CA/~pan > >> > >> > >> -- > >> Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxmoBr4cBKg > >> Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Starlink mailing list > Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink > -- Oct 30: https://netdevconf.info/0x17/news/the-maestro-and-the-music-bof.html Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos [-- Attachment #2: Type: text/html, Size: 4547 bytes --] ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
* Re: [Starlink] Measuring a Low-Earth-Orbit Satellite Network 2023-09-15 18:03 ` Dave Taht @ 2023-09-21 12:26 ` Alexandre Petrescu 0 siblings, 0 replies; 6+ messages in thread From: Alexandre Petrescu @ 2023-09-21 12:26 UTC (permalink / raw) To: Dave Taht; +Cc: starlink, J Pan Le 15/09/2023 à 20:03, Dave Taht a écrit : > > > On Fri, Sep 15, 2023 at 3:58 AM Alexandre Petrescu via Starlink > <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > <mailto:starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>> wrote: > > > Le 17/08/2023 à 18:42, Dave Taht via Starlink a écrit : >> On Thu, Aug 17, 2023 at 7:47 AM Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com > <mailto:dave.taht@gmail.com>> wrote: >>> This paper, at first glance, looks really, really good, >>> measuring detailed topology of the starlink network: >>> https://arxiv.org/abs/2307.06863 >>> <https://arxiv.org/abs/2307.06863> >>> >>> Thank you J Pan for passing it along! >> More recent data here: >> > https://www.reddit.com/r/StarlinkEngineering/comments/15p76j4/impressive_improvement_in_three_months_no_longer/ > <https://www.reddit.com/r/StarlinkEngineering/comments/15p76j4/impressive_improvement_in_three_months_no_longer/> > > Sorry but I do not understand the graphs. The URL sounds great. > > > I have cc´d the author. > > For my part, I can tell that I follow one particular sat chosen > arbitrarily (STARLINK-6064) on a public database since some weeks > now and it keeps at around 360km altitude. That is much lower than > 500-or-so usual. Maybe it is that lower altitude that permits a > higher performance (lower latencies). > > > Pretty neat! > > > (there are other sats even lower, but not sure whether they're there > in error or on their way up). > > > this was really good: > https://radionavlab.ae.utexas.edu/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/starlink_structure.pdf > <https://radionavlab.ae.utexas.edu/wp-content/uploads/2023/01/starlink_structure.pdf> The > paper is interesting. The authors built a system to listen to starlink. That is a valuable effort. It would be interesting to know in a public way what are precisely the freqs used by starlink DISHYs. This paper seems to be saying it is listening on: 10.7–11.7 GHz (the lower band) and 11.7–12.75 GHz (the upper band). However, this other paper from ETSI, cited on this email list, seems to be saying: Receive (space-to-Earth) 10,70 GHz to 12,75 GHz, Transmit (Earth-to-space) 14,0 GHz to 14,50 GHz. Remark the differences between the two. https://www.etsi.org/deliver/etsi_en/303900_303999/303981/01.02.00_30/en_303981v010200v.pdf I am not sure which of the two to trust, should only one be the right one, or both. It could be, for example, that the UT authors listen to something, hear something, but not sure whether that is the starlink they hear. It could be too that the ETSI document being respected by starlink is just a supposition. Maybe an additional, more authoritative, source of info is to list out the freqs reserved by starlink at FCC and other regulators. Maybe the DISHY and the user manual also has some labels telling precisely which are the frequencies. It is not clear to me whether a freq allocated by FCC in USA for starlink is also allocated in Europe. There are a number of freqs proposed for allocation in Europe for constellations, yet they differ even between two EU countries, so. Alex > > Getting more correlated results from two or more stations in the same > cell would help. > > > Alex > >> >>> >>> ---------- Forwarded message --------- From: J Pan <Pan@uvic.ca >>> <mailto:Pan@uvic.ca>> Date: Wed, Aug 16, 2023 at 11:02 PM >>> Subject: starlink To: dave.taht@gmail.com >>> <mailto:dave.taht@gmail.com> > <dave.taht@gmail.com <mailto:dave.taht@gmail.com>> >>> >>> >>> Hi Dave: thanks for your libreqos work. did you see >>> https://arxiv.org/abs/2307.06863 > <https://arxiv.org/abs/2307.06863> ? cheers. -j >>> -- J Pan, UVic CSc, ECS566, 250-472-5796 (NO VM), Pan@UVic.CA, > Web.UVic.CA/~pan <http://Web.UVic.CA/~pan> >>> >>> >>> -- Podcast: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxmoBr4cBKg > <https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bxmoBr4cBKg> >>> Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos >> >> > _______________________________________________ Starlink mailing > list Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > <mailto:Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink > <https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink> > > > > -- Oct 30: > https://netdevconf.info/0x17/news/the-maestro-and-the-music-bof.html > > <https://netdevconf.info/0x17/news/the-maestro-and-the-music-bof.html> > > Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos ^ permalink raw reply [flat|nested] 6+ messages in thread
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[not found] <CAHn=e4gXDRmiEOrSSm5GQRSbFDNS7Rz9L9C2VsMhoBYHgFHhtQ@mail.gmail.com>
2023-08-17 14:47 ` [Starlink] Measuring a Low-Earth-Orbit Satellite Network Dave Taht
2023-08-17 16:42 ` Dave Taht
2023-09-15 10:58 ` Alexandre Petrescu
2023-09-15 17:44 ` David Lang
2023-09-15 18:03 ` Dave Taht
2023-09-21 12:26 ` Alexandre Petrescu
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