From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.15.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4F6813B29D for ; Sun, 16 Oct 2022 13:00:28 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.net; s=badeba3b8450; t=1665939625; bh=P5p92BA1jIL05jCUy1+WHNH5bU3hG+FhfP6R9e1XlZI=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Date:From:To:CC:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=LbWRKiLGde7d6uCL70y4eCVhhJprAbuNXAmx9SGhwJKcf7IPqFD84kZrQRDePxxZf mCeEVJ8sYTakmaJLxbD5eTmjzgVTcN/5BcQlsq5V9kBYETwiwzt/vegBRoqPayCcp3 eNg3/EZorHTvK71KwH1cVzkHbMz2EZEZxMaZ7PKU= X-UI-Sender-Class: 01bb95c1-4bf8-414a-932a-4f6e2808ef9c Received: from [127.0.0.1] ([87.148.161.152]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx004 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MgNh7-1pLLxn11qB-00hth8; Sun, 16 Oct 2022 19:00:25 +0200 Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2022 19:00:21 +0200 From: Sebastian Moeller To: Dave Taht , Bruce Perens CC: Larry Press via Starlink User-Agent: K-9 Mail for Android In-Reply-To: References: <8735bqpq1r.wl-jch@irif.fr> <38522124-6d3b-4ac8-bb20-92bfa35dc9fe@Spark> <87tu46o8e3.wl-jch@irif.fr> <3ea89257-d5f8-4fa9-a90a-c73d49d2a9e2@Spark> <87r0zao0f0.wl-jch@irif.fr> <398208s8-6080-r8q7-s6rs-q9np11428n3o@ynat.uz> <4rn1o59p-36nq-87q9-3n78-828r0qppp221@ynat.uz> <17p02r7n-931q-np8o-n4r5-554psr2n8o79@ynat.uz> Message-ID: <3DBAA719-46BB-4394-B91D-46E1C8AC8589@gmx.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:qQTF7Ez5Vv4YhnuRHPnCMjiGS38GVnN0UaZh88oK4Xw3zIj47tE 0/ztkQ1YlU+aqfK303jz1G2rxJcOnYZD8mKme8krpoUvXQwjQOg7Cmo5MwUXDFMK2vk92gG q6RymbGgFZNcT0cIawsGuF6YDEY3yjVVnq3u8Nf/HPJx77ItVU+oOtHgJXiXF4of5V93m// nRg6pMx2mZxwOmY9TioaQ== X-Spam-Flag: NO X-UI-Out-Filterresults: notjunk:1;V03:K0:tY7VCJX0+bs=:xFhoG38/Q6n4BP2In4hFle z/W0E0ptWTgkvm4kuNVq/Xp8C3fnSitsvQSdscur24Yb7q2DVG4xTDnzCKwav/p8K7arUwTuQ iY1+4IY7Adm9pHP8pOXGsbu9Zh90H8Dr4JqOfskJN4sI8IZ8KsEHUYLbN0iAkLDbzUhJvPTRh t+orX6saCvwsYp8wSu/9hVAilgAcKVfHP4SRIACSNXdpNryVY7vUYYK2MKIGEZkZ2fp9Wtn5z Ho2NaEOS+vsXSL1HuAam66nCLVoB0Bi1wG2VhU9QOwi0lnrbn2S6WzAmQahtsdEJ4oC8mOl5n ns1Z0FukBw6XL3O+FM0IKl5d5XaDLPwqSzOAsOCAjhCb7SxpJbiEWP3DQYdnyjIEXlEVUpPs8 /WQs9j8Qc4ciCG5phh9LCvu4Nns0Ctmz0lGz4Quhx/6RzvNMqp1GbqzwMX565QGlsSzeDucln wKiSvOENj9vOpS21Y5h9ixDcpZ57mX7jXOizx7lFDem/xIGRvoouc9vDYLMcjI1u6eZJebcjG 93YRDQMZ9JDjQtYEJw+C2ocyy3Vic0S1ZmN2oxkxkS5KQLVoE5gZxJxMI1HUhUZWXRE0BY4OG g7Aja1hw8SyOWWNJOqmi52/ogH4u4pNBRdWvjOSzNoSETKKYriY1IOLo2EoHRZG3MjZgplQUx jGJ/wJAzMsbXoaFtlh2MQb+PIi6B3dui+mhsR3J8yPYlzlb6exHRpiwBzRJ/g1KmMYi+kwU8v nFFBRtrpD1hzHQ9dDuEeG5cPUaIAp9/mG5RyH9a9O3trtBSODxlRcs7uveMLdz86sx8XELP67 9XaobfN1mXKIxdgfj8JaZqEK6fJ8LfGMWEo9RtY309gZYjL8cDNwzbN2QucU/pZq9lP4ZDWMh armUQUJLBs7xYhpInvwLxveD5m4xJxqwUIdv3BW5aZv35cy6rRTTv+XZfARgB4pnNjgO06POn ZnBsb/P1TGntfJ/DrOArmVqOSax+H+LpljjaqrhaXa/N0HM1Mpib8UEFfWACiDYKFL2AR4spI SuDfvtJ/htH3o1hlyGRkohwrBGpuZlxSrpV+P8KshuRE5RrEYuIu63sCv1EXU2avPHA8y+uHg voyT9igxuw0/Gjo8RvLYMEVZ87gorNep8fe4HObAJJgEt6JBGx/4ilfIGfsIPBcGoAvc1Cbmj 45PlH6ZQoH3jxNhna5VUEbrWehPyVhY2t5R9CtSelrrUbhZiCoTp+eGHnbaPQpF1fpjHn4Ra6 LgKiQycJMn+pmXVm71nrgi3HGVXwrWOWxj3haKBlV+zT/pbw0Q8nuAE6zrjWur8P1ZiWO5la/ 7S4auEbp0UXlllGShlhOqXYQ6vaiBvFM1SABVTjpFK2h93yuevVtxyqldVyT9qANIR0IS2qHV 50pjn7wWPzDn3eP2qunelvLuOx1HcYrcU7vsDqF+iQQ1GX6itLixXgA725uWZ3U5TFr0nOR3I 5eibpsTtYYexm5b4BlwVBDEPaD5wmwKF+aTNx6J9kOF+USvn5kknSNCA9OoyszyLrjn21CUo9 3T+asTnPbnmxa80Sh/OvfCMg7FxuDQemma45iUORKHY1i Subject: Re: [Starlink] Starlink no longer available to the Ukrainian army? X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2022 17:00:28 -0000 Hi Dave, On 16 October 2022 18:31:07 CEST, Dave Taht wrot= e: >On Sun, Oct 16, 2022 at 1:45 AM Bruce Perens via Starlink > wrote: >> >> >> >> On Sun, Oct 16, 2022 at 7:42 AM Sebastian Moeller via Starlink wrote: >>> >>> I wonder whether some form of communication would not be better handle= d by a dedicated PR department: > >I have rather hated the return of over-processed communications in >the last decade, and the lack of a place to yell back at the screen=2E I >liked blogs and websites and media that had comments, and better, had >authors that read the comments=2E Yes, I generally agree=2E However in this case, I disagree somewhat=2E Twitter IMHO is a terrible to= ol for anything of relevance and outside small circles of friends or like m= inded individuals=2E As a tool for communicating policy or complex content = I am less convinced that twitter adds much (sorry if this sounds old man sh= outing at the clouds)=2E But in the starlink/ukraine topic it might be fascinating seeing decision = making changing in 'real-time', but neither Starlink nor Musk come out look= ing all that good=2E Which is somewhat puzzling, as they earned a lot of goodwill by their init= ial (and apparently their continuing) actions, so why go screw this up? In = this instance I believe some PR experts to discuss any intended tweet to ma= ke sure it truly reflects the intended policy seems an improvement to me=2E > >I like a wacking good, long form, debate=2E=2E=2E which is why I miss >netnews and email so much=2E +1; that is a different beast than twitter though which is essentially for= unvetted hot-takes, no? > >If you think stuff run by PR departments is better, please read Ed >Bernay's work, which has fallen out of copyright=2E Given that so far I liked all your recommendations I should check this out= =2E However I do not think PR publications are generally a good thing, just= in this instance it might have been a useful tool to avoid unnecessary u-t= urns=2E > >> >> >> Unfortunately the biggest PR problem SpaceX/Starlink has is not one tha= t can be mediated by a PR department=2E Elon says stupid things=2E > >>"There is the far-right conspiracy theorism," > >I don't see "far-right" conspiracy theorism except from commenters=2E >Got a concrete example? > >I am hopefully well known as a pretty rigorously "fair" person=2E[1] It >comes from this: > >http://ronsravings=2Eblogspot=2Ecom/2012/10/memorial-service-eulogy=2Ehtm= l > >and to a huge extent my outlook on life and the American way, is >actually reflected by the fq_codel and cake algorithms - > >" fq codel (now IETF standard RFC8290) is a uniquely =E2=80=9CAmerican=E2= =80=9D >algorithm=2E It's *fair*=2E It gives the =E2=80=9Clittle guy=E2=80=9D - t= he little packet, >the first packets in a new connection to anywhere, a little boost >until the flow achieves parity with other flows from other sources, >with minimal buffering=2E This means that all network traffic gets >treated equally - faster=2E Isn=E2=80=99t that what you want in a network >neutral framework? DNS, gaming traffic, voip, videoconferencing, and >the first packets of any new flow, to anywhere, get a small boost=2E >That=E2=80=99s it=2E Big flows - from anybody - from netflix to google to >comcast - all achieve parity, with minimal delay and buffering, at a >wide variety of real round trip times=2E" - >https://blog=2Ecerowrt=2Eorg/post/net_neutrality_customers/ >=2E=2E=2E > >Elon has definitely shifted right in the past years moving from >california to texas, and even if it's an uncalculated move (doubt it) >- in order to sell "green technology" into the other half of the >country, he needs to talk to things that those folk care about=2E > >If that means offending the green yuppie tesla base into buying more >rivians, and convinces the red set in the center of the country to >switch to electric trucks from ford=2E=2E=2E It's still a win, from his >long-stated perspectives of converting the economy over to greener >energies=2E > >"his belief that population collapse will end society if we don't >start having more babies, " > >He's stopped far short of "banning abortion", for example, and the >effects of population collapse can be demonstrated in >aging populations in Japan, especially, who have also made a big >investment into robotization=2E > >It does bug me that in repeated posts he doesn't show how, in America >at least, immigration has countered the not-enough-for-replacement >birth rate=2E I'm a big fan of immigration, always will be - (but I'd >emigrate if only I could find a country willing to take me in!) > >"and his recent statement on how he believes the war in Ukraine should >be ended=2E " > >Someone(s) need to propose answers on how wars can end=2E I already >posted my interpretation of the Nicaraguan >peace, as to what happened when both sides couldn't send in bullets anymo= re=2E > >"A lot of this seems totally nuts to me and is not going to endear him >to people=2E The impacts upon SpaceX and Tesla have been palpable=2E" > >It is impossible to be endearing to all people=2E > >"The hell with it =E2=80=A6 even though Starlink is still losing money & = other >companies are getting billions of taxpayer $, we=E2=80=99ll just keep fun= ding >Ukraine govt for free=2E" > >https://twitter=2Ecom/elonmusk/status/1581345747777179651 > >> >> I spent some time with Steve Jobs in 12 years at Pixar=2E There were ho= rror stories about him, but he'd matured=2E He wasn't perfect, but a lot be= tter=2E The problem is that he was probably as old then as Elon is now=2E > >Did he thrust iphones into a war? witness the complete collapse of all >other infrastructure technologies? Run the risk of nuclear war, with a >communication tech that was hoped to bring the benefit of the internet >to all? > >A really good question might be - what would steve jobs' have done, in >this situation? Think different? > >Gandhi? > >Pol Pot? > >Winston Churchill? > > >> >> Thanks > >[1] for the record, I have published very little about my politics, >and hope to not have to care more than I do=2E This >piece is the closest I came to skewering every perspective there is: >http://the-edge=2Eblogspot=2Ecom/2003_06_15_the-edge_archive=2Ehtml#10558= 2160924824821 > >and if someone could tell ME what my politics are after reading that, >I'd probably find something to quibble with=2E > > >> Bruce >> _______________________________________________ >> Starlink mailing list >> Starlink@lists=2Ebufferbloat=2Enet >> https://lists=2Ebufferbloat=2Enet/listinfo/starlink > > > --=20 Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail=2E Please excuse my brevity=2E