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[72.253.192.210]) by smtp.gmail.com with ESMTPSA id 98e67ed59e1d1-2c1c2831639sm7584236a91.35.2024.06.03.17.13.35 (version=TLS1_2 cipher=ECDHE-ECDSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 bits=128/128); Mon, 03 Jun 2024 17:13:36 -0700 (PDT) From: Eugene Y Chang Message-Id: <3F548B50-D476-4E54-B18E-3418978105CE@ieee.org> Content-Type: multipart/signed; boundary="Apple-Mail=_BBAEB0F6-3EBB-448A-85D4-E60B5246F2E1"; protocol="application/pgp-signature"; micalg=pgp-sha256 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3696.120.41.1.8\)) Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2024 14:13:33 -1000 In-Reply-To: <030p06nr-4169-9341-nn73-4n06nprp9863@ynat.uz> Cc: Eugene Y Chang , Frantisek Borsik , Dave Taht via Starlink To: David Lang References: <32AD770E-336E-4CF4-8B1B-8AE7353981CC@ieee.org> <030p06nr-4169-9341-nn73-4n06nprp9863@ynat.uz> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3696.120.41.1.8) Subject: Re: [Starlink] SpaceX/Starlink says it's ready for a fall satellite-to-cell service with T-Mobile X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 04 Jun 2024 00:13:38 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_BBAEB0F6-3EBB-448A-85D4-E60B5246F2E1 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_BFCA0B6F-2556-4380-8F5F-641755100D80" --Apple-Mail=_BFCA0B6F-2556-4380-8F5F-641755100D80 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > On Jun 3, 2024, at 12:41 PM, David Lang wrote: >=20 > Eugene Y Chang wrote: >=20 >> I expect low data rate because the distance will fall back to a lower = coding rate. >=20 > I think it's going to be more a matter of very large cells, so many = people sharing the available bandwidth >=20 >> I observe a difference in my phone=E2=80=99s batter life between = urban and rural usage. I expect the battery life to be significantly = reduced with Starlink. >> And yes=E2=80=A6 if the phone isn=E2=80=99t communicating then the = battery life isn=E2=80=99t drawn down much=E2=80=A6 >=20 > In my experience, a phone that's trying to find a tower uses more = power than one that has a tower, but is otherwise idle When the phone is searching for a tower, it is transmitting at maximum = power. Then, the phone adjusts the transmit power according to the distance to = the tower, In an urban environment, the distance to the tower is usually less (i.e. = smaller cells due to subscriber density). In a rural environment, there is more distance to the tower, and the = phone is transmitting at higher power (i.e., towers are farther apart = for larger cells due to fewer subscribers per tower, up to the max tower = separation.) When you are mobile, the power is proportionate to the mean distance to = the tower during your operations. >=20 >> But users with high screen times will have to change their habits. >> =E2=80=94 avoid receiving text messages (not under the user=E2=80=99s = control) >> =E2=80=94 don=E2=80=99t receive email pushes >> =E2=80=94 stop all the social media updates, messages, and likes. >> =E2=80=94 turn off the apps >> =E2=80=94 only use the phone for emergencies. >>=20 >> Who are the intended users? >=20 > emergancy communication in areas that currently have zero service, = primarily text messages, then voice, then low bandwidth data. >=20 > David Lang >=20 >> Gene >> ---------------------------------------------- >> Eugene Chang >> IEEE Life Senior Member >> IEEE Communications Society, Computer Society, & Signal Processing = Society, >> Hawaii Chapter Chair >> IEEE Life Member Affinity Group Hawaii Chair >> IEEE Entrepreneurship, Mentor >> eugene.chang@ieee.org >> m 781-799-0233 (in Honolulu) >>=20 >>=20 >>=20 >>> On Jun 3, 2024, at 11:16 AM, David Lang wrote: >>>=20 >>> This is a fallback that will only be if there is no other coverage, = and will be a poor data rate. >>>=20 >>> I would expect that the impact to the phone battery would be less = than the phone continually searching for a tower >>>=20 >>> Also, SpaceX has pushed back, according to them this isn't observed = interference with their signals, instead they reconfigured a satellite = to the direct-to-phone frequencies and were able to detect them >>>=20 >>> we'll see what the real story is. >>>=20 >>> On Mon, 3 Jun 2024, Eugene Y Chang via Starlink wrote: >>>=20 >>>> Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2024 10:47:32 -1000 >>>> From: Eugene Y Chang via Starlink = >> >>>> Reply-To: Eugene Y Chang >> >>>> To: Frantisek Borsik >> >>>> Cc: Dave Taht via Starlink = >> >>>> Subject: Re: [Starlink] SpaceX/Starlink says it's ready for a fall >>>> satellite-to-cell service with T-Mobile >>>> I found this line in the article very interesting: The larger 2nd = generation SpaceX satellites can connect to the majority of T-Mobile=E2=80= =99s 4G and 5G phones over its 1900 MHz spectrum. >>>>=20 >>>> It is exciting a subscriber does not need to buy a new phone. >>>> What is the expected impact to the phone=E2=80=99s battery life? >>>> Any speculations? >>>>=20 >>>> Gene >>>> ---------------------------------------------- >>>> Eugene Chang >>>> eugene.chang@ieee.org >>>> o 781-799-0233 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>=20 >>>>> On Jun 3, 2024, at 8:08 AM, Frantisek Borsik via Starlink = > = wrote: >>>>>=20 >>>>> SpaceX & T-Mobile intend to launch direct-to-device (D2D) = satellite servicethis fall >>>>> An analyst told us that will give them an 18- to 24-month lead = over some rivals >>>>> AT&T & Verizon are still backing AST SpaceMobile as an alternative >>>>>=20 >>>>> = https://www.fierce-network.com/wireless/space-x-says-its-ready-fall-direct= -satellite-cell-service-t-mobile = >>> >>>>>=20 >>>>> All the best, >>>>>=20 >>>>> Frank >>>>>=20 >>>>> Frantisek (Frank) Borsik >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>>=20 >>>>> https://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik = = > = = >> >>>>> Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp: +421919416714 >>>>>=20 >>>>> iMessage, mobile: +420775230885 >>>>>=20 >>>>> Skype: casioa5302ca >>>>>=20 >>>>> frantisek.borsik@gmail.com = > = >>_____________________________________= __________ >>>>> Starlink mailing list >>>>> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net = = > >>>>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink = = > >>>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Starlink mailing list >>> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net = = > >>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink = = > --Apple-Mail=_BFCA0B6F-2556-4380-8F5F-641755100D80 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8
On = Jun 3, 2024, at 12:41 PM, David Lang <david@lang.hm> wrote:

Eugene Y Chang wrote:

I expect low data rate because the = distance will fall back to a lower coding rate.

I think it's going to be more a matter of very large cells, = so many people sharing the available bandwidth

I = observe a difference in my phone=E2=80=99s batter life between urban and = rural usage. I expect the battery life to be significantly reduced with = Starlink.
And yes=E2=80=A6 if the phone isn=E2=80=99t = communicating then the battery life isn=E2=80=99t drawn down much=E2=80=A6=

In my experience, a phone that's trying to find a tower uses = more power than one that has a tower, but is otherwise idle

When = the phone is searching for a tower, it is transmitting at maximum = power.
Then, the phone adjusts the transmit power according to = the distance to the tower,
In an urban environment, the = distance to the tower is usually less (i.e. smaller cells due to = subscriber density).
In a rural environment, there is more = distance to the tower, and the phone is transmitting at higher power = (i.e., towers are farther apart for larger cells due to fewer = subscribers per tower, up to the max tower separation.)
When = you are mobile, the power is proportionate to the mean distance to the = tower during your operations.




But = users with high screen times will have to change their habits.
=E2=80=94 avoid receiving text messages (not under the = user=E2=80=99s control)
=E2=80=94 don=E2=80=99t receive = email pushes
=E2=80=94 stop all the social media updates, = messages, and likes.
=E2=80=94 turn off the apps
=E2=80=94 only use the phone for emergencies.
Who are the intended users?

emergancy = communication in areas that currently have zero service, primarily text = messages, then voice, then low bandwidth data.

David = Lang

Gene----------------------------------------------
Eugene Chang
IEEE Life Senior Member
IEEE Communications Society, Computer Society, & Signal = Processing Society,
  Hawaii Chapter Chair
IEEE Life Member Affinity Group Hawaii Chair
IEEE= Entrepreneurship, Mentor
eugene.chang@ieee.org
m 781-799-0233 (in = Honolulu)



On Jun 3, 2024, at 11:16 = AM, David Lang <david@lang.hm> wrote:

This is a fallback that will only be if there is no other = coverage, and will be a poor data rate.

I = would expect that the impact to the phone battery would be less than the = phone continually searching for a tower

Also,= SpaceX has pushed back, according to them this isn't observed = interference with their signals, instead they reconfigured a satellite = to the direct-to-phone frequencies and were able to detect them

we'll see what the real story is.

On Mon, 3 Jun 2024, Eugene Y Chang via = Starlink wrote:

Date: Mon, 3 Jun 2024 10:47:32 -1000
From: = Eugene Y Chang via Starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net <mailto:starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>>
Reply-To: Eugene Y Chang <eugene.chang@ieee.org <mailto:eugene.chang@ieee.org>>
To: = Frantisek Borsik <frantisek.borsik@gmail.com <mailto:frantisek.borsik@gmail.com>>
Cc:= Dave Taht via Starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net <mailto:starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>>
Subject: Re: [Starlink] SpaceX/Starlink says it's ready for a = fall
  satellite-to-cell service with = T-Mobile
I found this line in the article very = interesting: The larger 2nd generation SpaceX satellites can connect to = the majority of T-Mobile=E2=80=99s 4G and 5G phones over its 1900 MHz = spectrum.

It is exciting a subscriber does = not need to buy a new phone.
What is the expected impact = to the phone=E2=80=99s battery life?
Any speculations?

Gene
----------------------------------------------
Eugene Chang
eugene.chang@ieee.org
o 781-799-0233




On Jun 3, 2024, at 8:08 = AM, Frantisek Borsik via Starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
SpaceX & T-Mobile intend to launch direct-to-device = (D2D) satellite servicethis fall
An analyst told us that = will give them an 18- to 24-month lead over some rivals
AT&T & Verizon are still backing AST SpaceMobile as = an alternative

https://www.fierce-network.com/wireless/space-x-says-its-ready-= fall-direct-satellite-cell-service-t-mobile<https://www.fierce-network.com/wireless/space-x-says-its-ready-= fall-direct-satellite-cell-service-t-mobile><https://www.fierce-network.com/wireless/space-x-says-its-ready-= fall-direct-satellite-cell-service-t-mobile<https://www.fierce-network.com/wireless/space-x-says-its-ready-= fall-direct-satellite-cell-service-t-mobile>>

All the best,

Frank

Frantisek (Frank) Borsik



https://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik <https://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik> <https://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik <https://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik>>
Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp: +421919416714

iMessage, mobile: +420775230885

Skype: casioa5302ca

frantisek.borsik@gmail.com <mailto:frantisek.borsik@gmail.com> <mailto:frantisek.borsik@gmail.com<mailto:frantisek.borsik@gmail.com>>__________________= _____________________________
Starlink mailing list
Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net <mailto:Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink <https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink>

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https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink <https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink>

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