From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail.lang.hm (unknown [66.167.227.145]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 7DDF13B2A4 for ; Mon, 8 Aug 2022 18:37:43 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dlang-mobile (unknown [10.2.2.70]) by mail.lang.hm (Postfix) with ESMTP id 5144C1417A2; Mon, 8 Aug 2022 15:37:42 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 8 Aug 2022 15:37:42 -0700 (PDT) From: David Lang To: "David P. Reed" cc: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net In-Reply-To: <1659994794.324713695@apps.rackspace.com> Message-ID: <3n65o07q-p244-7032-q2ps-7391s6621qp4@ynat.uz> References: <1659994794.324713695@apps.rackspace.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; BOUNDARY="===============5379301753153155392==" Subject: Re: [Starlink] SIGCOMM MIT paper: Starvation in e2e congestion control X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 08 Aug 2022 22:37:43 -0000 This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text, while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools. --===============5379301753153155392== Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII To quote from Tom Clancy (Hunt for Red Octover IIRC), it's possible to both increase security and increase access as a marine at a gate beats a padlock for both In computer security especially there are many examples of things that increase security while decreasing error, increasing availablity, and (overall) decreasing cost. sometimes it's 'pick 2', but all to frequently people actually opt for 'none of the above' (i.e. sub-optimal in all areas) David Lang On Mon, 8 Aug 2022, David P. Reed via Starlink wrote: > 2) I absolutely hate folks who invent "theorems" that say you can have "any two of three" properties. It's become popular in computer systems research, but it actually creates a huge intellectual mess. > The CAP theorem, for example has some very peculiar definitions in order to make C, A, and P "independent" axes. Of course they are NOT independent in engineering practice. In fact, they aren't even "binary" - there's no "yes" or "no" to C, A or P - they are not even spectra that map to some increasing sequence. > Yes, you can't always get what you want. But you can almost always get what you need, and that is never a specific two out of three. > Especially not in queue management algorithms. > Goddamn cutesy anti-intellectuals. --===============5379301753153155392== Content-Type: text/plain; CHARSET=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: BASE64 Content-ID: <7sp3q4r5-q8n8-495-n5sr-3o1no5887os0@ynat.uz> Content-Description: Content-Disposition: INLINE X19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX19fX18KU3Rhcmxpbmsg bWFpbGluZyBsaXN0ClN0YXJsaW5rQGxpc3RzLmJ1ZmZlcmJsb2F0Lm5ldApodHRwczovL2xpc3Rz LmJ1ZmZlcmJsb2F0Lm5ldC9saXN0aW5mby9zdGFybGluawo= --===============5379301753153155392==--