From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.15.15]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 706BD3CBC5 for ; Wed, 15 Mar 2023 12:26:48 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.de; s=s31663417; t=1678897606; i=moeller0@gmx.de; bh=2bcIoLPeNifDNv/HMH6Sn9Am9pqt9Vzp0yxkH+yKYno=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To; b=bkPpzUlMycTdNviZvgdItji5w2dFc+na0cE7eD3CsDneMVvDmFxcGwX4urBfrRvxz 6t0+yOJmAX5SiuCs4egzj1bNM14025XsKRcKBTQ9TD7g7IEtUuiNC+YM0ntRPCxAJl e3LDjjVHFrRMiis+oTe1fheS+h2jMZ69hsv+NF8ZRkOTVMpaXGMy9SVzLYVzTvpsck A4uwFxdA/zHVEqkkBjz4gEoqkegvXo4hUGLNcyyBbvgSxWr+97hPojoaGXW7U4Psiy /xPdqPWWjk2cDCEERMTbZUTTUUEu679RO6HnWDHzJbeGkyVYiBNqEezlucDDcYjJxp ZSlzXtHyZMAhQ== X-UI-Sender-Class: 724b4f7f-cbec-4199-ad4e-598c01a50d3a Received: from smtpclient.apple ([134.76.241.253]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx005 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1N95e9-1qYngn0yCV-016C1E; Wed, 15 Mar 2023 17:26:46 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3696.120.41.1.2\)) From: Sebastian Moeller In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2023 17:26:45 +0100 Cc: =?utf-8?Q?David_Fern=C3=A1ndez?= , starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: <42282A72-276E-4F79-8899-8940B5953BE2@gmx.de> References: <49102316-A4EC-4045-AD84-F58CFAA66A56@gmx.de> To: =?utf-8?Q?Dave_T=C3=A4ht?= X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3696.120.41.1.2) X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:Yajn8AHnd85UsH6r2yNB9++vrq4P0epzkPk7sgdrn4unC6ei1Ci fsYSdGeKaC/Ua0jDSW+pDZp2rhGbtXYCTjjZ5m83Bkgi7TVh7oBLjv2SMmmC564FRoqDTH4 51gBIFoeNDvfYDmTD8fd4AtZrBmIbOK1knUdVInYkDNNSBEYZzbNpsPB6yar0QAxHiUsSe5 VevLHrBAcE0bVH5I1YJBw== X-Spam-Flag: NO UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:1qDywYRN4l4=;0HUZWIZn6tLGLS/7FOldHVnIeNh pstxNCfAgIi3f9A4w1eStCMK3bZCv0i6UtwGBH+OgJrV6+bwy3KlxkKEdVVfxqTAxXjImz9mR 1vtC1V6yl9+7BwVCncvNiS2AKFg+9fbOzFDSFcM+KfF2ai92EKtUubR/LgWm0gxVZSBVidI5O njQ98YZ03M8TSefRZTBk9+HueF2MQg/e1Sfpb9/EGVzJwPHtzlFyI16aC8AGm/gvorLi/Y9A6 Tiuc+Kh9htgDOEFYtvMSRkj6rFZl1rIkhA20dAW9ieEF9lRPicDoZvgIucqakSAIZEQ0GqmvK 43aaDiIMM1Y4/oALboN6b6emMY6M8zckGuZk14FJReiKIgWDebx1HhOthqUK03YdWjHEXjVFU I0Heb9NCCo5+/0Jas3C6BFQuMqW+PnvVsSs5DdzYcH7wjI5U6Miyv2DWAUT5OMgyJv6HynDrr 4KM+LIBNy/0N26+o8m367JVc4qiKXNITx/SRtLPcWcwSwMXBgEy4IlFkGULRduoKaNNqaJa1c ll0A1yj6IPzr/3eefa6LtqRFzukcqmSYJvMj3iuy89ZFoyh55zIRwwsRw/0uqnxxL82TgYaV+ rI0Y5AvQ7jABrCed9hIphXyVeEjUSVC8Tv2S4HDTrUujV+JgSd3JAqwsVwBT11fmRRyRkS2V0 XkvP5nU49oosnaLOR1G+XbiXsE2vGXvwS8iSsF3Ej6UfZ01y1z6NKX1bDByVCM2EhcguZrTO7 EC5VNyqlODhTyTDdfS5BtSGt3r5+E0fB8S95h3muI0NEmtUOVpxtejmAIV9E+9K2FmQ+nLS/T +ICLJK4uUqVQkd1Hdl2uWVMBdfVTOCaixvcVbqgi7riuWiGINdjQfvVcjPCOhATk1oyKhewrx 1e70bl6npbOSTdjl7JZahvIIG/z0a/Ow58KQP0nLcQfKYQxwQ9mORO+PmjyeLioHXnee3NWwr MfAqD8vVUljiG0jM41hG3/uUv7U= Subject: Re: [Starlink] On FiWi X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 15 Mar 2023 16:26:48 -0000 Hi Dave, > On Mar 15, 2023, at 17:17, Dave Taht wrote: >=20 > I still think that ethernet over powerline could make a comeback, if > they fixed the bloat. It was otherwise "good enough". Partly... talk to your local HAM enthusiast ;) PLC (and VDSL for that matter) are not using licensed spectrum* but are = secondary users of spectrum licensed to others. That per se is not a = problem, the problem comes in as neither POTS wire pairs nor electricity = wiring was ever designed with the intent of putting MHz frequency = signals on. POTS wires are at least twisted and hence "not terrible", = but power cables often are nicely parallel and are decent enough = antennas to cause problems for the licensed spectrum users (over here = HAM radio amateurs mostly) as well as VDSL2 lines. Once the switch from = DSL to FTTH has been made PLC becomes considerably more attractive again = (except for HAMs). Regards Sebastian P.S.: In nice convergence PLC uses similar MIMO approaches as WiFi to = increase the capacity. *) Let's ignore whether licensing spectrum is that great an idea in the = first place, I believe David Reed had good arguments against it