From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail.ausics.net (mail.ausics.net [IPv6:2403:580a:1f3d::9]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DB0B83B2A4 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2023 00:40:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.ausics.net (valhalla.ausics.net [10.10.0.10]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature ECDSA (P-256) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mail.ausics.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id DC33A200095 for ; Mon, 25 Sep 2023 14:40:49 +1000 (AEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=ausics.net; s=dkim1; t=1695616849; bh=fUzWUYqIVYBvRP7EXREkI9Vwl67E5/S+Mnn+9FXunzo=; h=Date:From:To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=JfGzzl61uaWqu7xp9KmU/Ac9eJJbNfUHijoy+NNUgDjBuQYzu9xuZwlRJaBDpr1T4 RCYBpOYLBjmL8AZmOd4BsQ4y2hbfHK+gsjSRbVwh/0vXPOcCv/oRjK0n6k5eDTu9VT mJeVuNkA5N1jML/YMNUiVp++vrEuFw0jTg4YAqlkCGKXqSeKaJNAk1U4cUmqwqY7YK 6bwgV0BCfIBzuOfCyU3mw2mdmHbNkucLN+wfbtze8Af3BtAv8ZD170Q+KrBNFfpTxu wSniEQt7m5VbJwfxet8pR+vwR5ilPXAkNUTZAGnUQwECNlrwPwltHacainWZvpIAV9 jwHdV9f0PjYvA== Received: from Vu0eA9gpryrk9iTfkebls2obgsnSiV2KosRjQEz6+8k= (zUVuuIfxLekzHfI1bso4An1kuYrnRTuI) by mail.ausics.net with HTTP (HTTP/1.1 POST); Mon, 25 Sep 2023 14:40:49 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2023 14:40:49 +1000 From: Noel Butler To: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net In-Reply-To: <1ad0e825-bacc-4dd4-9526-1554d66a41f9@auckland.ac.nz> References: <9d96e8d6-8a40-4353-b7a3-49881742f1a7@auckland.ac.nz> <83e9b47895d019d282e21bbdd4f4cc57@ausics.net> <1ad0e825-bacc-4dd4-9526-1554d66a41f9@auckland.ac.nz> User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail Message-ID: <4745d4934dbda686a41851d8b12b8c0b@ausics.net> X-Sender: noel.butler@ausics.net Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_d53b89d85de2d01d617f6131ab490aae" Subject: Re: [Starlink] APNIC56 last week X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 25 Sep 2023 04:40:52 -0000 --=_d53b89d85de2d01d617f6131ab490aae Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed On 23/09/2023 20:53, Ulrich Speidel via Starlink wrote: > Now what that tells me is that you and those that use your mail / web > servers are within networks that are either in networks that are old > and have legacy IPv4 allocations, or that are new, desparate, and rich. Mail is mostly Australian since that's where my userbase is, but there is considerable international (even when I exclude the spambots, gmail, outlook socials etc), as for WWW, and excluding most bots, last time I checked webalizer the figures on a couple of my sites were less than 10% from Aus and the rest (obviously) international, so its more varied than one might think, but it does vary depending on the site being visited, I don't run the BBC or CNN, so of course I wont see the diverse ranges they will. > So you're in the process of being outnumbered. But that's perhaps of > academic interest only, for now, at least. Yes, like I previously said, not in my lifetime. > I came home from APNIC54 last year with the insight that my employer's > /16 IPv4 allocation was worth around US$3.5 million. Since we've had > the /16 for ages, I started wondering whether this was even on our > asset list. I was pretty sure that it ought to be. Turns out it wasn't > - when I've no doubt they aren't on many, but putting a price on an intangible asset that varies is not so easy, what it's worth today it wont be in six months, yes, with ipv4 that means probably worth more, but a new buyer might not want nor need them, so that's another sales stream you need to find, and then you're competing against others with the same asset, a CGNAT device is physical one they can keep using without interrupting services to clients if they so choose, the only intangible asset that's worth something is the ongoing good will, you don't get that from address space unless you have a fresh faced startup type buyer. I'm curious though, your part of a University, so it's not like you're going to be able to use that extra 3.5m, I don;t see the Uni giving up its resources, a business of course is a different matter. -- Regards, Noel Butler This Email, including attachments, may contain legally privileged information, therefore at all times remains confidential and subject to copyright protected under international law. You may not disseminate this message without the authors express written authority to do so. If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender then delete all copies of this message including attachments immediately. Confidentiality, copyright, and legal privilege are not waived or lost by reason of the mistaken delivery of this message. --=_d53b89d85de2d01d617f6131ab490aae Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8

On 23/09/2023 20:53, Ulrich Speidel via Starlink wrot= e:

= Now what that tells me is that you and those that use your mail / web serve= rs are within networks that are either in networks that are old and have le= gacy IPv4 allocations, or that are new, desparate, and rich.
=  
= Mail is mostly Australian since that's where my userbase is, but there is c= onsiderable international (even when I exclude the spambots, gmail, outlook= socials etc), as for WWW, and excluding most bots, last time I checked web= alizer the figures on a couple of my sites were less than 10% from Aus and = the rest (obviously) international, so its more varied than one might think= , but it does vary depending on the site being visited, I don't run the BBC= or CNN, so of course I wont see the diverse ranges they will.
=  
= So you're in the process of being outnumbered. But that's perhaps of academ= ic interest only, for now, at least.
=  
= Yes, like I previously said, not in my lifetime.
=  
= I came home from APNIC54 last year with the insight that my employer's /16 = IPv4 allocation was worth around US$3.5 million. Since we've had the /16 fo= r ages, I started wondering whether this was even on our asset list. I was = pretty sure that it ought to be. Turns out it wasn't - when
=  
= I've no doubt they aren't on many, but putting a price on an intangible ass= et that varies is not so easy, what it's worth today it wont be in six mont= hs, yes, with ipv4 that means probably worth more, but a new buyer might no= t want nor need them, so that's another sales stream you need to find, and = then you're competing against others with the same asset, a CGNAT device is= physical one they can keep using without interrupting services to clients = if they so choose, the only intangible asset that's worth something is the = ongoing good will, you don't get that from address space unless you have a = fresh faced startup type buyer. I'm curious though, your part of a Universi= ty, so it's not like you're going to be able to use that extra 3.5m, I don;= t see the Uni giving up its resources, a business of course is a different = matter.
=  
 
--

Regards,
Noel Butler

This Email, including attachments, may contain legally pri= vileged information, therefore at all times remains confidential and subjec= t to copyright protected under international law. You may not disseminate t= his message without the authors express written authority to do so.   = If you are not the intended recipient, please notify the sender then delete= all copies of this message including attachments immediately. Confidential= ity, copyright, and legal privilege are not waived or lost by reason of the= mistaken delivery of this message.


--=_d53b89d85de2d01d617f6131ab490aae--