From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from cpanel9.c.fozzy.com (cpanel9.c.fozzy.com [206.54.190.30]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id EE5C93B29D for ; Sun, 1 Jan 2023 12:17:52 -0500 (EST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=olegkutkov.me; s=default; h=In-Reply-To:From:References:To:Subject: MIME-Version:Date:Message-ID:Content-Type:Sender:Reply-To:Cc: Content-Transfer-Encoding:Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date: Resent-From:Resent-Sender:Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id: List-Help:List-Unsubscribe:List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=Rddw8EH4O2yEjVOzjA2YLhdxGLNhZWtLl5b+ErFnUlo=; b=s8D4hfdqVX+5NonhyrUDVLpQZd btPZFOMClYI+8+kM64BvpGbuToIWP00Lf797bbwJBMyi4I73lrt+hlofudWGNTURU73agPp34gO2B GivPHwLwEW7Z4QV8jVK+ZlZ2sYHnIAprjnfGM66QnR8AZwRxu8KrEcGlhV8Cf5Mqsw2s+GAwyDys5 m8lBXCJ9l0kA4tE7PYgtQu8/ZSjO6L26rnUYea4f3l0hpxFoUZUCFGN+VIVWhMtH8yjpp+kx9jKGi We+lT57i4At8yPhPQwDtJbxUBlHIAMraoHDvHIhda26iD7dNQdIDAokX88c4RsNP7VyG/yI2KYBuw 7lzRxelg==; Received: from [188.163.81.171] (port=1594 helo=[192.168.8.2]) by cpanel9.c.fozzy.com with esmtpsa (TLS1.3) tls TLS_AES_128_GCM_SHA256 (Exim 4.95) (envelope-from ) id 1pC1y2-008mjK-S5 for starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net; Sun, 01 Jan 2023 17:17:51 +0000 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------C6kInu6Rz9mVkslWQvyUG41G" Message-ID: <4b18869c-1a68-1a16-ec59-59214eef98db@olegkutkov.me> Date: Sun, 1 Jan 2023 19:17:48 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (X11; Linux x86_64; rv:102.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/102.4.2 Content-Language: en-US To: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net References: <7381115c-e248-d885-e4da-c33da77d6fe1@olegkutkov.me> <895ff23b-a263-4cf1-abf5-d403a63e5b0c@Spark> From: Oleg Kutkov In-Reply-To: <895ff23b-a263-4cf1-abf5-d403a63e5b0c@Spark> X-AntiAbuse: This header was added to track abuse, please include it with any abuse report X-AntiAbuse: Primary Hostname - cpanel9.c.fozzy.com X-AntiAbuse: Original Domain - lists.bufferbloat.net X-AntiAbuse: Originator/Caller UID/GID - [47 12] / [47 12] X-AntiAbuse: Sender Address Domain - olegkutkov.me X-Get-Message-Sender-Via: cpanel9.c.fozzy.com: authenticated_id: contact@olegkutkov.me X-Authenticated-Sender: cpanel9.c.fozzy.com: contact@olegkutkov.me X-Source: X-Source-Args: X-Source-Dir: X-From-Rewrite: unmodified, already matched Subject: Re: [Starlink] Starlink cheaper in Colombia,cand gps spoofing X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 01 Jan 2023 17:17:53 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------C6kInu6Rz9mVkslWQvyUG41G Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit There is also interesting behavior. If you physically disconnect the Starlink GNSS receiver from the SoC, it still connects to the Starlink satellites, but it takes up to 20-25 minutes. It looks like there is some fallback mechanism, like RF sync on their own satellites. But for normal operation, they use GNSS (GPS + Galileo) to set the system time faster. On 1/1/23 19:09, Mike Puchol via Starlink wrote: > I can confirm that spoofing with “non-milspec” methods don’t seem to > work against the receiver in the Starlink terminal. I tried with a > HackRF and a USRP and it didn’t work, while an Android phone was > spoofed fine. I was however able to jam the receiver with very > moderate power levels and a sweep generated with a HackRF Portapack > and patch antenna. > > Best, > > Mike > On Jan 1, 2023 at 17:23 +0100, Benjamin Henrion via Starlink > , wrote: >> Le dim. 1 janv. 2023 à 12:49, Oleg Kutkov via Starlink >> a écrit : >> >> Hi, >> >> Starlink has a multisystem GNSS receiver with data filtering, so it >> can't be fooled with the single HackRF (i tested it). >> >> >> Here they describe another method with gps jammers: >> >> https://gpspatron.com/spoofing-a-multi-band-rtk-gnss-receiver-with-hackrf-one-and-gnss-jammer/ >> >> >> I experimented with NMEA data injected directly into the Dishy >> operating >> system, so I can tell there is no way to cheat the system. >> Satellites know your location a wouldn't accept a connection from the >> client in an unexpected Cell. All connection slots for all >> clients and >> areas are scheduled. >> >> Besides this, Starlink requires valid and strict GNSS and 1PPS to >> sync >> the local clock, that's vital for the TDD system. >> >> >> On 1/1/23 13:18, Benjamin Henrion via Starlink wrote: >> > Hi, >> > >> > Just wondering if you could pay less by pretending to be in >> Colombia >> > by spoofing gps sats with a HackRF board: >> > >> > >> https://mobile.twitter.com/GeoffreyHuntley/status/1609490537484275712 >> > >> > Best, >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Starlink mailing list >> > Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net >> > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink >> >> -- >> Best regards, >> Oleg Kutkov >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Starlink mailing list >> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Starlink mailing list >> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink > > _______________________________________________ > Starlink mailing list > Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink -- Best regards, Oleg Kutkov --------------C6kInu6Rz9mVkslWQvyUG41G Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

There is also interesting behavior. If you physically disconnect the Starlink GNSS receiver from the SoC, it still connects to the Starlink satellites, but it takes up to 20-25 minutes. It looks like there is some fallback mechanism, like RF sync on their own satellites.

But for normal operation, they use GNSS (GPS + Galileo) to set the system time faster.

On 1/1/23 19:09, Mike Puchol via Starlink wrote:
I can confirm that spoofing with “non-milspec” methods don’t seem to work against the receiver in the Starlink terminal. I tried with a HackRF and a USRP and it didn’t work, while an Android phone was spoofed fine. I was however able to jam the receiver with very moderate power levels and a sweep generated with a HackRF Portapack and patch antenna.

Best,

Mike
On Jan 1, 2023 at 17:23 +0100, Benjamin Henrion via Starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>, wrote:
Le dim. 1 janv. 2023 à 12:49, Oleg Kutkov via Starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> a écrit :
Hi,

Starlink has a multisystem GNSS receiver with data filtering, so it
can't be fooled with the single HackRF (i tested it).

Here they describe another method with gps jammers:



I experimented with NMEA data injected directly into the Dishy operating
system, so I can tell there is no way to cheat the system.
Satellites know your location a wouldn't accept a connection from the
client in an unexpected Cell. All connection slots for all clients and
areas are scheduled.

Besides this, Starlink requires valid and strict GNSS and 1PPS to sync
the local clock, that's vital for the TDD system.


On 1/1/23 13:18, Benjamin Henrion via Starlink wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Just wondering if you could pay less by pretending to be in Colombia
> by spoofing gps sats with a HackRF board:
>
> https://mobile.twitter.com/GeoffreyHuntley/status/1609490537484275712
>
> Best,
>
> _______________________________________________
> Starlink mailing list
> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink

--
Best regards,
Oleg Kutkov

_______________________________________________
Starlink mailing list
Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
_______________________________________________
Starlink mailing list
Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink

_______________________________________________
Starlink mailing list
Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink

-- 
Best regards,
Oleg Kutkov
--------------C6kInu6Rz9mVkslWQvyUG41G--