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charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [Starlink] Starlink tidbits from NANOG X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2021 00:35:03 -0000 Thanks for that Darrell - that's really interesting! A few comments on=20 that front: On 5/11/2021 4:26 am, Darrell Budic wrote: > I was at NANOG in Minneapolis, and got a chance to ask a couple=20 > question of a Starlink Network Engineer who=E2=80=99s attending. I was al= ready=20 > talking to him about Starlink=E2=80=99s network efforts (see below) but i= t was=20 > nice to meet in person. Don=E2=80=99t quote me on any of this, but here= =E2=80=99s a=20 > few tidbits this list may appreciate: > > - Starlink is expanding their own network operations, and is=20 > connecting to more IXPs. They were already on SIX in Seattle, have=20 > connected to DECIX NY, and are in the process of connecting to ChIX in=20 > Chicago. As I run ChIX, I had a good excuse to talk to them about=20 > other things. :) IXPs and their own networks are in the works for=20 > Europe and other areas as well. Makes sense. > - They have been obtaining more v4 addresses, but I don=E2=80=99t know if= they=20 > have enough to not do CGNAT. I don't think they do yet, but it seems=20 > like it may be a long term target. > - v6 is deliberately not fully functional, but they know some of use=20 > are using it and it will eventually be fully activated. May be waiting=20 > on the regional connectivity, so will be intersting to see if changes=20 > for some areas and not others as they roll it out. So I guess we need to distinguish between: - IPv4 addresses for any CGNAT they might run - IPv4 addresses as static addresses for (some of?) their customers - IPv6 addresses as customer addresses - IPv6 addresses to support geographic routing as discussed in earlier=20 posts (subnet maps to cell / satellite) There are quite a number of feasible configurations in this. E.g., they=20 could be running a CGNAT setup with a v4 pool on the Internet side, use=20 v6 to tunnel route from there to the satellite the end customer connects=20 to, and then map that customer back to a (private) IPv4 address in a NAT=20 on the satellite. One aspect that hasn't really been mentioned much here=20 is that of PDU size on the link between end customer and satellite.=20 Keeping Dishy and its successors small and cheap creates an incentive to=20 operate at marginal SNR, and this favours smaller PDUs over larger ones=20 as the probability of PDU checksum errors increases with PDU size. But=20 having lots of small PDUs means having lots of headers, and as IPv4=20 addresses are leaner than IPv6 ones, this saves bandwidth here. Probably=20 not a biggie though. > - New ground stations with more capacity are coming (and will be=20 > upgrades).=20 Any word on where? At the moment, most of the world can see Starlink=20 satellites, but most Starlink satellites can't see a ground station. > They are using waves back to regional DCs now, but will be moving to=20 > dark fiber over the next year or two If that means "radio" waves, then this goes a long way to explaining why=20 there's already limited capacity even near the US-Canada border. > - the new satellites have more than 2 lasers, and there is enough=20 > capacity on them to do routing. no details on how or what protocols, alas Any word on when we can expect to see routing in action? > - new birds also have 2-3x more ku bandwidth than first gen Hm. Sounds cool, but with 3 billion or so underserved on the planet &=20 typical annual growth rates, that's still just a drop in the bucket. > - new dishes are in the works, v4 coming with lower power use, more=20 > capacity, not round any more Trayee? Squary? Just joking ;-) > - larger dishes coming for commercial apps That's good news, as this will allow Starlink to be used in places where=20 direct-to-site crashes into regulatory hurdles. If we can get the big=20 CDN providers to come up with small (virtual?) appliances that can be=20 put at the remote end of such links by local ISPs, then that'll also=20 help to preserve space segment capacity. --=20 **************************************************************** Dr. Ulrich Speidel School of Computer Science Room 303S.594 (City Campus) Ph: (+64-9)-373-7599 ext. 85282 The University of Auckland ulrich@cs.auckland.ac.nz http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~ulrich/ ****************************************************************