From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [209.87.249.19]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 9F3AA3B29E for ; Wed, 24 May 2023 10:49:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id E129E3898C; Wed, 24 May 2023 10:49:15 -0400 (EDT) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id 6P9SeSvByxfg; Wed, 24 May 2023 10:49:14 -0400 (EDT) Received: from sandelman.ca (unknown [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2:40a:34ff:fe10:f571]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 970583898B; Wed, 24 May 2023 10:49:14 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=sandelman.ca; s=mail; t=1684939754; bh=TK7MyFdXS60hyUuKZuhJKOor4w+sREfN2tuOkNQZvr4=; h=From:To:cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=ut3AjHH+6clbg7UdLv2vAjKBQNUqxOY2iKhaJjdmBTI3iE0phtMkFbcEktNBxd99g sCTYkmWVlQYkJgnxS8eDJD6qHQxRz8FZjFuWo65AYTPhJKMZcaOaJdNXogew+DBC8K 7O/7bvM6/+B9Wd/DCwgjtc6bYhFRYCtWcR6ofJtvSqn0KedDgY931De75slSDd2pZk l39fc/ZlYfOyU41vjJcP4iUJIQG8T//op0bppELK/wlmqea8rBfjdMhL3RW4Yl4cVm q+Nl/gHIqZuw4ZUmzAcbqLaTqANeZ8O8oat7JE+5wE6kG+NafcFsb4ILnJNGSYXY5U GYS/ItmQY8Bog== Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 78D326B; Wed, 24 May 2023 10:49:14 -0400 (EDT) From: Michael Richardson To: Dave Taht cc: Ulrich Speidel , "starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net" In-Reply-To: References: <0no84q43-s4n6-45n8-50or-12o3rq104n99@ynat.uz> <48b00469-0dbb-54c4-bedb-3aecbf714a1a@auckland.ac.nz> <728orr66-1432-751p-263q-sqopr12s20sq@ynat.uz> <077e6ad1-d7cc-2d57-39f8-e9646bea32a5@auckland.ac.nz> <09552rq0-0n24-0pqo-4085-n918r0n71138@ynat.uz> <9q29o7n2-69rs-3os1-s93q-0795262qs3o1@ynat.uz> <1c9df33b-e964-f531-7326-1a11b159e6a7@auckland.ac.nz> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 27.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Subject: Re: [Starlink] Starlink hidden buffers X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 24 May 2023 14:49:16 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain Dave Taht via Starlink wrote: > These are the biggest reliability reasons why I think FQ is *necessary* > across the edges of the internet. It saved your bacon, but yeah, like all other resilient protocols (DNS, Happy Eyeballs) tends to hide when one option is failing :-) > pure AQM, in the case above, since that flood was uncontrollable, would > have resulted in a 99.99% or so drop rate for all other traffic. While > that would have been easier to diagnose I suppose, the near term > outcome would have been quite damaging. What this says is that fq_codel doesn't have enough management reporting interfaces. Going back 25 years, this has always been a problem with home routers: ntop3 is great, but it's not easy to use, and it's not that accessible, and it often can't see things that move around. > I always try to make a clear distinction between FQ and AQM techniques. > Both are useful and needed, for different reasons (but in the general > case, I think the DRR++ derived FQ in fq_codel is the cats pajamas, and > far more important than any form of AQM) Could fq_codel emit flow statistics as a side-effect of it's classifications? -- ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh networks [ ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | IoT architect [ ] mcr@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on rails [ --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iQFFBAEBCgAvFiEEbsyLEzg/qUTA43uogItw+93Q3WUFAmRuI+oRHG1jckBzYW5k ZWxtYW4uY2EACgkQgItw+93Q3WXPoggApy09mSDNdp5STUm4Ht6us2yQi+O7n5uo e2tRetG3L3VDf1Z+QBdhUeqtUpM70N/peUdrbaIvcbz97pISfb20zNjJf7xJIRxy d1LOgHnpCOfuQxlKgcCqgdY4WsubndefFuNgHfYTBRiZzeD+66cZZGPQJzgt6GYI ei0a+KncjOJrLTrDCng44Sq+b9j8OELAa1/xUj3p3V07y2W06wdQjYFrrllyecfv CQhmSIi2EP/tjNLeVkB8ibyIn54EPphqBi6OowFunN7SIrqGBt4BXunw2E3muI0r lzeV/PECyihcihqzqqoaDbB4iU8A44bv2plEEYvKQsgKeaO6tA81lg== =JNWy -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--