From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from au-smtp-delivery-117.mimecast.com (au-smtp-delivery-117.mimecast.com [180.189.28.117]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5559B3CB38 for ; Fri, 5 Nov 2021 18:13:00 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=auckland.ac.nz; s=mimecast20200506; t=1636150377; h=from:from:reply-to:subject:subject:date:date:message-id:message-id: to:to:cc:cc:mime-version:mime-version:content-type:content-type: in-reply-to:in-reply-to:references:references; bh=KdfCp+P/HSmYSXyQRKsRPKvow9RJ2eX3w9AA+Izls1I=; b=krtGmj0b7lFYPy0W6+NO9S2oUIXdmNrBlRO2yNqqdnM+HeqHD8E+Hfy8E1qhhZqQBhOWYm Fe7yYSQOpfE5IYaBcJ2N+KSmBDtwIIDGmKNoaONSbdZurtrsFWeVfsKWgKkBovSJL1y//w 6RI4gkA5UgRW8MDVOY8/10XwmBqUbGE= Received: from AUS01-SY4-obe.outbound.protection.outlook.com (mail-sy4aus01lp2168.outbound.protection.outlook.com [104.47.71.168]) (Using TLS) by relay.mimecast.com with ESMTP id au-mta-103-8jOB8J-3PYiuqFeoy3B9uA-1; Sat, 06 Nov 2021 09:12:56 +1100 X-MC-Unique: 8jOB8J-3PYiuqFeoy3B9uA-1 Received: from SY4PR01MB6979.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com (2603:10c6:10:142::13) by SY2PR01MB3067.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com (2603:10c6:1:1b::17) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.4669.13; Fri, 5 Nov 2021 22:12:53 +0000 Received: from SY4PR01MB6979.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::f04c:4ca7:9275:e0fa]) by SY4PR01MB6979.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com ([fe80::f04c:4ca7:9275:e0fa%3]) with mapi id 15.20.4669.013; Fri, 5 Nov 2021 22:12:52 +0000 Message-ID: <53decc41-74ee-1785-6d1a-4bbf9e71f050@cs.auckland.ac.nz> Date: Sat, 6 Nov 2021 11:12:49 +1300 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:91.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/91.3.0 To: Nathan Owens Cc: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net References: <7907F9D1-9511-4254-BD8F-701888EB6778@onholyground.com> <4ea38008-0e62-1cad-165a-a8aad232ebd6@cs.auckland.ac.nz> From: Ulrich Speidel In-Reply-To: X-ClientProxiedBy: SY6PR01CA0156.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com (2603:10c6:10:1ba::8) To SY4PR01MB6979.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com (2603:10c6:10:142::13) MIME-Version: 1.0 Received: from [IPV6:2407:7000:a14b:9100:1568:8393:b277:78b2] (2407:7000:a14b:9100:1568:8393:b277:78b2) by SY6PR01CA0156.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com (2603:10c6:10:1ba::8) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.4669.11 via Frontend Transport; Fri, 5 Nov 2021 22:12:51 +0000 X-MS-PublicTrafficType: Email X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: e89572ea-1aa4-4c72-8d67-08d9a0a9688f X-MS-TrafficTypeDiagnostic: SY2PR01MB3067: X-Microsoft-Antispam-PRVS: X-MS-Oob-TLC-OOBClassifiers: OLM:8882 X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck: 1 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-Relay: 0 X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0 X-Microsoft-Antispam-Message-Info: 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 X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:255.255.255.255; CTRY:; LANG:en; SCL:1; SRV:; IPV:NLI; SFV:NSPM; H:SY4PR01MB6979.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com; PTR:; CAT:NONE; SFS:(4636009)(366004)(4326008)(8676002)(83380400001)(66556008)(66476007)(166002)(83170400001)(8936002)(31696002)(2906002)(5660300002)(38100700002)(31686004)(966005)(508600001)(786003)(316002)(66946007)(186003)(2616005)(6486002)(6916009)(53546011)(33964004)(45980500001)(43740500002); DIR:OUT; SFP:1101 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-ChunkCount: 1 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-MessageData-0: =?utf-8?B?alpmMjVBeVpyVmRpdFRUNldocnJBS3RxTFczQXUzbUxxSUpvNTBuVFd2MWRq?= =?utf-8?B?OFJFOTJZblFTWk5pNzZJdU81N2VZbUdTd3YxcHZXRkpKNTUzWVprUTZWSGtQ?= =?utf-8?B?RjlrcmoyT2UrNjU0Vm14WE82WkZHck5CNjMzNGNhYUl1SFBGQnhzWjBScmVE?= =?utf-8?B?WGc5a2ZDSFVQVVh1OFBMblI5ZkExSjJkSWdnQVM4SnNacFlwNkVTSzFJWnBR?= =?utf-8?B?VHBFcW4wL3ZLRDJnQWVSMjlaakZSK1ZING04MzQ2ekZRVDVQSzU5M29qQVU0?= =?utf-8?B?TE8yUnY2Sy9WZERqV2NveGNVbWFRWVlORFBzUE9jZVVmNW5uVTdwNXlwOVhk?= =?utf-8?B?NlJ1ZDBkK0xNQVhmYzZCTTlFOU01d2diaU5ocnBGdlF5dzYwVHNTQnB3T09K?= =?utf-8?B?WDdzMGordUpNMGMrcUZzVWE2Um45MFVKZXhtM203YnQzMmRIVlQrTHliLzM3?= =?utf-8?B?UmJlWlQ4VmROSU9BdUkxaVZaUjhsaVE1akFmNmlxc1FjMk4ydktOWnVlZGwz?= =?utf-8?B?M0lHOHpwdi92WGJNZWNXWVZydlRKWkdFQUh2R0JPQS8zSlBESGZNVWxBWUdS?= =?utf-8?B?aWtublJaMmpPYVhDZ0FXakRsNDhZVTFBeVFTbG1QSlk2cytqWlZtZC81R0xi?= =?utf-8?B?b29RSUxlaEdaRDF5S2Zad3FKdDhpdHNsbEl3QXRpaG16ZkxtZ3lNVW1oRHYr?= =?utf-8?B?cEdhRi9UWmIwYXY2ZmJiQWZVSVdQRWVvOWJ0bW9SZ08vWU1SZUVSUWxlSjJ1?= =?utf-8?B?QmRBT1FYeVlORDI4dEhHTlJ3MHdQOXA3NElHSTB6Vyt0RUFHaFVNMVlmMU1G?= =?utf-8?B?WG9UWE9hcytSZWV2dEtsdlNZdGtKdkluL3pkVFJIY240UTNpUWM4NlMzNHU1?= =?utf-8?B?QlhYaW1SWW1HMU5qSVRWNkM0ODlKTjB3V1d0UlZwcTBrRGRsU1VHVFNTZ0NU?= =?utf-8?B?N0R2amxBUUZnQ0p0ZjRNVno1MkZpSDZNU2RIdE50M3gvd25ndGR0YzlDM095?= =?utf-8?B?NFROcFRoUDF3N2hZalBaTWk5YmZLejBML0NZUzRhUm4rdTBYSHlKOXprNmN0?= =?utf-8?B?ZHUzTW5tU21teWtwei9hNGJGYXhCek4yS1d5eDdUU2lhTE94UkxjOXN6cVRH?= =?utf-8?B?RGM3ejV3cDBGdndjZWxPRHl4anNzS09kWk9uK3pWU25JYjBZbU9mZGVCOFR4?= =?utf-8?B?RU9IMVU0d1ZYdGZjdklQaVNiR0Y0MTBURFRLcitsZ0RSaW04VG5wSUhqelBS?= =?utf-8?B?YzlRbndzNWM3VnRxSmkwTnJwbEI4Rjg0ajJ6ck5yN0xITEZWOWFIVC9iYmRP?= =?utf-8?B?Y2d5Nm1UNVJyVWlwalhWUjhOaUN6a1U0eE14MURjQXViTnpTL2FZUUVvUW9v?= =?utf-8?B?SlJrWk0wMXVpWlM5RzlOMWZjVWFDSzRXbng3VlpsSXE5MFBTQ1EyYjhyT2pR?= =?utf-8?B?S1NTSldDSU5rdkh2d25kMERrbUQyZDgwdjl6Q0hmY1hkZnJuN0FvS3RGSU5l?= =?utf-8?B?ZHNhTFg5UDVvWlAxRHF4RDhadlpiN21acWlBSFEzbGVybkdxdGxKc2FqWENG?= =?utf-8?B?L25mVjZlVVJQbE5QODJpMGsrZElNMWJzNDltTktpYkdHZVRRQ3lyZ1dYdFRr?= =?utf-8?B?Q3VhYW4wYmVPMnpWaGtMMnFTVGc1Y1c0cVpuK2RHWFQrRkUyVmJuRzdmcits?= =?utf-8?B?MnFsVUZGM3FMQ3AyNzN5TnRvUW82MGd0Yml1bGhVZDA5Z1hCYmJlaDJBNkpw?= =?utf-8?B?ODlxNkt2c2EzVVFJWTZLb3JpSHBvMFhQeFBWbzVCL1ZxYTk3NWp3dC9DVGZj?= =?utf-8?B?OUVOZW54TEdyVkRYQkl3aVMybkM3d2dqdWpsaXVFMDJFeVJUanpldmRyM1pu?= =?utf-8?B?Nk1ETjRyYkUrUmNMT2pLQVNFZWhWVC9VZ0hsR3puN2IvWlN5YlRJTEM5VllU?= =?utf-8?B?UWNpWFN6NVFKdE0wY3F2S28rTElrbTFQMy9oWS9xQ2JmenB1R3Ixdy85MnRa?= =?utf-8?B?NXVpVE9jQWhWSjlRQmUwVlNGZTNJVndkUXlUcm5OQ1VnQS9jcEZ4K3JLWkEw?= =?utf-8?B?Q0x0U2hESU9Vcjc5OWtITVcwVkNiOXVKa3BESXBxT0FwL0VveDBWVi9sMlgx?= =?utf-8?B?enFwNHp4bTNOeFBJdjRWRGU3RGphejVjdHFCUUxUYmlOWlRkSjJrb1hwSXNn?= =?utf-8?B?ZmxBSVlVdy8rZXB4TmVoSzVFVllDM1Z0TGtTWFB5VXI4ZDMxS2swRXVrOGlK?= =?utf-8?B?MWtpdVFhajdKQTdVb2RKWUxwaXFoclNuQkNTcUZ1M2tNbkdmRlpBbnFZeUZ2?= =?utf-8?B?SytoVWFCV2hkQk9LZHo0bnBLbTR3S2ZuMXVHUG1jd3BEa0l2dExvT2RraUVI?= =?utf-8?Q?P1KkZuG66TvisHkI=3D?= X-OriginatorOrg: cs.auckland.ac.nz X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: e89572ea-1aa4-4c72-8d67-08d9a0a9688f X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: SY4PR01MB6979.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-OriginalArrivalTime: 05 Nov 2021 22:12:52.7092 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-FromEntityHeader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Id: d1b36e95-0d50-42e9-958f-b63fa906beaa X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-MailboxType: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-UserPrincipalName: o0OIT2y4JeZ4zfAcUj9yW2Tks0yJZ/JoWYuyiNlaBwzTOv4iqM0ipaSQkwJlr/arktVp0/gU006sWW1s3SsI/ugVrE9Q8Nejg06daff8zd4= X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: SY2PR01MB3067 Authentication-Results: relay.mimecast.com; auth=pass smtp.auth=CAU17A13 smtp.mailfrom=u.speidel@auckland.ac.nz X-Mimecast-Spam-Score: 0 X-Mimecast-Originator: auckland.ac.nz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="------------AyLb0eLL0KjxgNYlsvx497i2" Content-Language: en-US Subject: Re: [Starlink] Starlink tidbits from NANOG X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2021 22:13:00 -0000 --------------AyLb0eLL0KjxgNYlsvx497i2 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable On 5/11/2021 2:05 pm, Nathan Owens wrote: > > They are using waves back to regional DCs now, but will be moving to > > dark fiber over the next year or two > If that means "radio" waves, then this goes a long way to explaining why > there's already limited capacity even near the US-Canada border. > > Waves in this case generally refers to 10G/100G leased optical circuit=20 > capacity. > Thanks for clearing this up, that makes sense now! Now I note that a single Starlink ground station is generally within=20 sight of and set up to handle multiple satellite links (all known images=20 show 6 or more radomes). As each bird has ~20 Gb/s capacity, I guess=20 we'll probably be talking 100G circuits here (where they can get them).=20 And the move to dark fibre is a logical step then. --=20 **************************************************************** Dr. Ulrich Speidel School of Computer Science Room 303S.594 (City Campus) Ph: (+64-9)-373-7599 ext. 85282 The University of Auckland ulrich@cs.auckland.ac.nz =20 http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~ulrich/ **************************************************************** --------------AyLb0eLL0KjxgNYlsvx497i2 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
On 5/11/2021 2:05 pm, Nathan Owens wrote:
=20
> Th= ey are using waves back to regional DCs now, but will be moving to 
> dark fiber over the next year or two
If that means "radio" waves, then this goes a long way to explaining why 
there's already limited capacity even near the US-Canada border.

Waves in this case generally refers to 10G/100G leased optical circuit capacity. 

Thanks for clearing this up, that makes sense now!

Now I note that a single Starlink ground station is generally within sight of and set up to handle multiple satellite links (all known images show 6 or more radomes). As each bird has ~20 Gb/s capacity, I guess we'll probably be talking 100G circuits here (where they can get them). And the move to dark fibre is a logical step then.

--
******************************=
**********************************
Dr. Ulrich Speidel

School of Computer Science

Room 303S.594 (City Campus)
Ph: (+64-9)-373-7599 ext. 85282

The University of Auckland
ulrich@cs.auckland.ac.nz=20
http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~ulrich/
****************************************************************



--------------AyLb0eLL0KjxgNYlsvx497i2--