[Starlink] Lost in Space: The Limits of Geolocation in a Satellite-Connected World (new article from Geoff Huston)

[Starlink] Lost in Space: The Limits of Geolocation in a Satellite-Connected World (new article from Geoff Huston)

[Frantisek Borsik]

https://circleid.com/posts/limits-of-geolocation-in-a-satellite-connected-world

“Where are you?” is not an easy question to answer on the Internet. The
telephone system’s address plan embedded a certain amount of physical
location information in the fixed-line network, and a full E.164 telephone
number indicated your location in terms of your country and your area
within that country. The Internet did not adopt a geographic address plan,
which means that you will need a lot of additional information to map an IP
address to a location at the country or city level."

All the best,

Frank

Frantisek (Frank) Borsik


*In loving memory of Dave Täht: *1965-2025

https://libreqos.io/2025/04/01/in-loving-memory-of-dave/


https://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik

Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp: +421919416714

iMessage, mobile: +420775230885

Skype: casioa5302ca

frantisek.borsik@gmail.com

[Starlink] Re: Lost in Space: The Limits of Geolocation in a Satellite-Connected World (new article from Geoff Huston)

[J Pan]

specifically for starlink, http://geoip.starlinkisp.net shows customer
location by ip address, and their pop (exit to the internet) encoded
in its dns ptr record. "For example, a Starlink dish in Victoria, BC,
Canada has a temporary, external public IPv4 address
(170.203.207.244/21) and a unique CGNAT address (100.76.147.112/10),
as well as various IPv6 addresses through SLAAC and DHCP prefix
delegation, with PTR customer.sttlwax1.pop.starlinkisp.net indicating
the Seattle, WA, USA PoP and “170.203.207.0/24,CA,CA-BC,Vancouver” in
the GeoFeed." it works well mostly, but starlink geofeed and dns ptr
records are often not updated properly and synchronized well, causing
customer complaints at http://reddit.com/r/starlink

another problem is the (uneven/unsuitable) geo-granularity "A Starlink
dish inside the Arctic Circle is listed as Vancouver, more than 2400km
away, according to StarlinkISP’s GeoFeed."

btw, we can use https://arxiv.org/pdf/2412.18243 to reach 4.5m, or 65%
of 7m active users claimed by starlink, by ipv6, with their geo
location according to http://geoip.starlinkisp.net
--
J Pan, UVic CSc, ECS566, 250-472-5796 (NO VM), Pan@UVic.CA, Web.UVic.CA/~pan


On Tue, Sep 30, 2025 at 10:33 PM Frantisek Borsik via Starlink
<starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>
> https://circleid.com/posts/limits-of-geolocation-in-a-satellite-connected-world
>
> “Where are you?” is not an easy question to answer on the Internet. The
> telephone system’s address plan embedded a certain amount of physical
> location information in the fixed-line network, and a full E.164 telephone
> number indicated your location in terms of your country and your area
> within that country. The Internet did not adopt a geographic address plan,
> which means that you will need a lot of additional information to map an IP
> address to a location at the country or city level."
>
> All the best,
>
> Frank
>
> Frantisek (Frank) Borsik
>
>
> *In loving memory of Dave Täht: *1965-2025
>
> https://libreqos.io/2025/04/01/in-loving-memory-of-dave/
>
>
> https://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik
>
> Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp: +421919416714
>
> iMessage, mobile: +420775230885
>
> Skype: casioa5302ca
>
> frantisek.borsik@gmail.com
> _______________________________________________
> Starlink mailing list -- starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
> To unsubscribe send an email to starlink-leave@lists.bufferbloat.net

[Starlink] Re: Lost in Space: The Limits of Geolocation in a Satellite-Connected World (new article from Geoff Huston)

[Michael Richardson]

Dr. Pan, I am still confused by the presences/need of the CGNAT layer in
Starlink, vs your slides saying that it's "one big IPv4 hop"

Is that the IPv4 100.x on the outside of the customer's access point?
Are they unique within Starlink, or unique to each Landing Station?
Gosh, I wish they had just done one of the v4-over-v6 mechanisms.

--
]               Never tell me the odds!                 | ipv6 mesh networks [
]   Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works        |    IoT architect   [
]     mcr@sandelman.ca  http://www.sandelman.ca/        |   ruby on rails    [

[Starlink] Re: Lost in Space: The Limits of Geolocation in a Satellite-Connected World (new article from Geoff Huston)

[J Pan]

100.64/10 is starlink's ipv4 access network. from the user side, user
router will get a unique 100.64/10 address on its wan side, and its
cgnat gateway is always fixed at 100.64.0.1. from the user 100.64/10
(100.76.147.112 in my victoria dish example) to 100.64.0.1, it's a
"long ip hop", since it's over the satellites and landing ground
station, which is under user ip traffic. for users with public ip
address on their router, 100.64/10 and 100.64.0.1 are replaced by the
corresponding public ipv4 address, respectively, but still over the
long space-ground tunnel

for ipv6, the user router has a global ipv6 address (part of its ipv6
access network) with slaac on its wan port, and a /56 prefix
delegation on its lan side for the router to distribute further

the space and ground tunnel, under the user ipv4 or ipv6 traffic,
might be ipv6 or mpls-alike, and starlink does use mpls tunnels in its
ground backbone to reach its users at a given pop
--
J Pan, UVic CSc, ECS566, 250-472-5796 (NO VM), Pan@UVic.CA, Web.UVic.CA/~pan

On Wed, Oct 1, 2025 at 9:46 AM Michael Richardson <mcr@sandelman.ca> wrote:
>
> Dr. Pan, I am still confused by the presences/need of the CGNAT layer in
> Starlink, vs your slides saying that it's "one big IPv4 hop"
>
> Is that the IPv4 100.x on the outside of the customer's access point?
> Are they unique within Starlink, or unique to each Landing Station?
> Gosh, I wish they had just done one of the v4-over-v6 mechanisms.
>
> --
> ]               Never tell me the odds!                 | ipv6 mesh networks [
> ]   Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works        |    IoT architect   [
> ]     mcr@sandelman.ca  http://www.sandelman.ca/        |   ruby on rails    [
>

[Starlink] Re: Lost in Space: The Limits of Geolocation in a Satellite-Connected World (new article from Geoff Huston)

[Michael Richardson]

J Pan <Pan@uvic.ca> wrote:
    > 100.64/10 is starlink's ipv4 access network. from the user side, user
    > router will get a unique 100.64/10 address on its wan side, and its
    > cgnat gateway is always fixed at 100.64.0.1. from the user 100.64/10
    > (100.76.147.112 in my victoria dish example) to 100.64.0.1, it's a

I thought I understood that 100.64.0.1 did not show up in your traceroute
though?

[Starlink] Re: Lost in Space: The Limits of Geolocation in a Satellite-Connected World (new article from Geoff Huston)

[J Pan]

it shows up. see http://reddit.com/u/panuvic
--
J Pan, UVic CSc, ECS566, 250-472-5796 (NO VM), Pan@UVic.CA, Web.UVic.CA/~pan


On Wed, Oct 1, 2025 at 2:09 PM Michael Richardson <mcr@sandelman.ca> wrote:

> J Pan <Pan@uvic.ca> wrote:
>     > 100.64/10 is starlink's ipv4 access network. from the user side, user
>     > router will get a unique 100.64/10 address on its wan side, and its
>     > cgnat gateway is always fixed at 100.64.0.1. from the user 100.64/10
>     > (100.76.147.112 in my victoria dish example) to 100.64.0.1, it's a
>
> I thought I understood that 100.64.0.1 did not show up in your traceroute
> though?
>
>

[Starlink] Re: Lost in Space: The Limits of Geolocation in a Satellite-Connected World (new article from Geoff Huston)

[Livingood, Jason]

Related reminder that the IAB is holding a workshop on IP Geolocation – with statements of interested due at the end of this week. For more info:
https://www.iab.org/announcements/call-for-papers-iab-workshop-on-ip-address-geolocation-ip-geo/

Call for Papers: IAB Workshop on IP Address Geolocation (ip-geo)
17 Jul 2025, 6:42 p.m.
This workshop aims to understand the current use cases for publishing, discovering, and consuming IP address geolocation data.
Workshop Description
This workshop aims to understand the current use cases for publishing, discovering, and consuming IP address geolocation data ('IP-geo' hereafter). It will also explore areas for improvement, both in ways to update or replace IP geolocation mechanisms, and to consider mechanisms that satisfy the use cases without relying on IP addresses.
The IAB seeks short position papers on the topics listed below. This list is non-exhaustive and should be interpreted broadly.

  *   Today's Use Cases: How is IP-geo data used today? In particular, what are the root challenges, technical needs, or business needs that IP-geo data is being leveraged to address?
  *   Gaps and Problems: What are gaps or problems with the current approaches being used by industry? Are there preferences for particular file types? How effective are current approaches? What are the impacts on user privacy?
  *   Future Opportunities: If we re-designed technical solutions to address the motivating use cases, what would those solutions look like? Are there alternative approaches that can avoid the gaps and problems we have today? Is there value in conveying other information in addition to or instead of geography, such as type of last mile network connection?




From: Frantisek Borsik via Starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>
Date: Wednesday, October 1, 2025 at 01:33
To: Dave Taht via Starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>
Subject: [Starlink] Lost in Space: The Limits of Geolocation in a Satellite-Connected World (new article from Geoff Huston)
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://circleid.com/posts/limits-of-geolocation-in-a-satellite-connected-world__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!EFQL8aw74ccWvN8krJFCWAe6jGUXLywQDRUR_DX7p0sz9VXAb0IJ-o-NUrY106OF9HEQlkGBclyVVUmd3CB6Ef7vTlJ2Y7KKvw$<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/circleid.com/posts/limits-of-geolocation-in-a-satellite-connected-world__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!EFQL8aw74ccWvN8krJFCWAe6jGUXLywQDRUR_DX7p0sz9VXAb0IJ-o-NUrY106OF9HEQlkGBclyVVUmd3CB6Ef7vTlJ2Y7KKvw$>

“Where are you?” is not an easy question to answer on the Internet. The
telephone system’s address plan embedded a certain amount of physical
location information in the fixed-line network, and a full E.164 telephone
number indicated your location in terms of your country and your area
within that country. The Internet did not adopt a geographic address plan,
which means that you will need a lot of additional information to map an IP
address to a location at the country or city level."

All the best,

Frank

Frantisek (Frank) Borsik


*In loving memory of Dave Täht: *1965-2025

https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://libreqos.io/2025/04/01/in-loving-memory-of-dave/__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!EFQL8aw74ccWvN8krJFCWAe6jGUXLywQDRUR_DX7p0sz9VXAb0IJ-o-NUrY106OF9HEQlkGBclyVVUmd3CB6Ef7vTlK3wrVjiw$<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/libreqos.io/2025/04/01/in-loving-memory-of-dave/__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!EFQL8aw74ccWvN8krJFCWAe6jGUXLywQDRUR_DX7p0sz9VXAb0IJ-o-NUrY106OF9HEQlkGBclyVVUmd3CB6Ef7vTlK3wrVjiw$>


https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!EFQL8aw74ccWvN8krJFCWAe6jGUXLywQDRUR_DX7p0sz9VXAb0IJ-o-NUrY106OF9HEQlkGBclyVVUmd3CB6Ef7vTlJI5d0lSQ$<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!EFQL8aw74ccWvN8krJFCWAe6jGUXLywQDRUR_DX7p0sz9VXAb0IJ-o-NUrY106OF9HEQlkGBclyVVUmd3CB6Ef7vTlJI5d0lSQ$>

Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp: +421919416714

iMessage, mobile: +420775230885

Skype: casioa5302ca

frantisek.borsik@gmail.com
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[Starlink] Re: Lost in Space: The Limits of Geolocation in a Satellite-Connected World (new article from Geoff Huston)

[David Lang]

Livingood, Jason wrote:

> Related reminder that the IAB is holding a workshop on IP Geolocation – with statements of interested due at the end of this week. For more info:
> https://www.iab.org/announcements/call-for-papers-iab-workshop-on-ip-address-geolocation-ip-geo/
>
> Call for Papers: IAB Workshop on IP Address Geolocation (ip-geo)
> 17 Jul 2025, 6:42 p.m.
> This workshop aims to understand the current use cases for publishing, discovering, and consuming IP address geolocation data.
> Workshop Description
> This workshop aims to understand the current use cases for publishing, discovering, and consuming IP address geolocation data ('IP-geo' hereafter). It will also explore areas for improvement, both in ways to update or replace IP geolocation mechanisms, and to consider mechanisms that satisfy the use cases without relying on IP addresses.
> The IAB seeks short position papers on the topics listed below. This list is non-exhaustive and should be interpreted broadly.
>
>  *   Today's Use Cases: How is IP-geo data used today? In particular, what are the root challenges, technical needs, or business needs that IP-geo data is being leveraged to address?
>  *   Gaps and Problems: What are gaps or problems with the current approaches being used by industry? Are there preferences for particular file types? How effective are current approaches? What are the impacts on user privacy?
>  *   Future Opportunities: If we re-designed technical solutions to address the motivating use cases, what would those solutions look like? Are there alternative approaches that can avoid the gaps and problems we have today? Is there value in conveying other information in addition to or instead of geography, such as type of last mile network connection?

If I were attending and had the power to do so, I would add a discussion on how 
much geolocation is needed and what other approaches are

for example:

If you are using a mobile device (with an app or browser), you have access to 
the location from the device (either GPS or lower accuracy)

If you are using Starlink, it has a GPS in it, make it's location available on 
it's local network and have a way for computers/devices/browsers to query the 
local network for a location.

At that point, just about all that remains is traditional fixed location 
services (wired or wireless), and they can leverage a similar approach to what I 
outline for starlink, a service on their local router that provides location 
information for things on the network.

Now, if you are not just trying to provide geo-based services, but instead 
analyze IP data in logs to get geo info, this won't help, but (recognizing the 
security limitations of asking the user to provide their location), I think it 
would be both more useful for consumers, and better overall to explicitly pass 
location information rather than try to reverse engineer it from the IP 
addresses.

David Lang

[Starlink] Re: Lost in Space: The Limits of Geolocation in a Satellite-Connected World (new article from Geoff Huston)

[Spencer Sevilla]

Yeah I agree with David here. I am medium confident this approach (query for GPS) is part of the E911 system rollout as well, which strikes me as a far better approach than “for each number, enter a corresponding address in some database.”

I could certainly see some use for IP-based geolocation going forward, less as a concrete primary source and more as a cross-check on other location-based tools for e.g. security purposes.

Spencer

> On Oct 1, 2025, at 14:22, David Lang via Starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
> 
> Livingood, Jason wrote:
> 
>> Related reminder that the IAB is holding a workshop on IP Geolocation – with statements of interested due at the end of this week. For more info:
>> https://www.iab.org/announcements/call-for-papers-iab-workshop-on-ip-address-geolocation-ip-geo/
>> 
>> Call for Papers: IAB Workshop on IP Address Geolocation (ip-geo)
>> 17 Jul 2025, 6:42 p.m.
>> This workshop aims to understand the current use cases for publishing, discovering, and consuming IP address geolocation data.
>> Workshop Description
>> This workshop aims to understand the current use cases for publishing, discovering, and consuming IP address geolocation data ('IP-geo' hereafter). It will also explore areas for improvement, both in ways to update or replace IP geolocation mechanisms, and to consider mechanisms that satisfy the use cases without relying on IP addresses.
>> The IAB seeks short position papers on the topics listed below. This list is non-exhaustive and should be interpreted broadly.
>> 
>> *   Today's Use Cases: How is IP-geo data used today? In particular, what are the root challenges, technical needs, or business needs that IP-geo data is being leveraged to address?
>> *   Gaps and Problems: What are gaps or problems with the current approaches being used by industry? Are there preferences for particular file types? How effective are current approaches? What are the impacts on user privacy?
>> *   Future Opportunities: If we re-designed technical solutions to address the motivating use cases, what would those solutions look like? Are there alternative approaches that can avoid the gaps and problems we have today? Is there value in conveying other information in addition to or instead of geography, such as type of last mile network connection?
> 
> If I were attending and had the power to do so, I would add a discussion on how much geolocation is needed and what other approaches are
> 
> for example:
> 
> If you are using a mobile device (with an app or browser), you have access to the location from the device (either GPS or lower accuracy)
> 
> If you are using Starlink, it has a GPS in it, make it's location available on it's local network and have a way for computers/devices/browsers to query the local network for a location.
> 
> At that point, just about all that remains is traditional fixed location services (wired or wireless), and they can leverage a similar approach to what I outline for starlink, a service on their local router that provides location information for things on the network.
> 
> Now, if you are not just trying to provide geo-based services, but instead analyze IP data in logs to get geo info, this won't help, but (recognizing the security limitations of asking the user to provide their location), I think it would be both more useful for consumers, and better overall to explicitly pass location information rather than try to reverse engineer it from the IP addresses.
> 
> David Lang
> _______________________________________________
> Starlink mailing list -- starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net <mailto:starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>
> To unsubscribe send an email to starlink-leave@lists.bufferbloat.net <mailto:starlink-leave@lists.bufferbloat.net>

[Starlink] Re: Lost in Space: The Limits of Geolocation in a Satellite-Connected World (new article from Geoff Huston)

[J Pan]

“Starlink dish contains a GPS receiver, but cannot expose the user’s exact
GPS location unless explicit consent. When permitted, the devices on the
local network can retrieve the dish’s GPS coordinates, so some guideline on
how to use such info is needed, likely beyond IAB and IETF.”
--
J Pan, UVic CSc, ECS566, 250-472-5796 (NO VM), Pan@UVic.CA, Web.UVic.CA/~pan


On Wed, Oct 1, 2025 at 2:51 PM Spencer Sevilla via Starlink <
starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:

> Yeah I agree with David here. I am medium confident this approach (query
> for GPS) is part of the E911 system rollout as well, which strikes me as a
> far better approach than “for each number, enter a corresponding address in
> some database.”
>
> I could certainly see some use for IP-based geolocation going forward,
> less as a concrete primary source and more as a cross-check on other
> location-based tools for e.g. security purposes.
>
> Spencer
>
> > On Oct 1, 2025, at 14:22, David Lang via Starlink <
> starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
> >
> > Livingood, Jason wrote:
> >
> >> Related reminder that the IAB is holding a workshop on IP Geolocation –
> with statements of interested due at the end of this week. For more info:
> >>
> https://www.iab.org/announcements/call-for-papers-iab-workshop-on-ip-address-geolocation-ip-geo/
> >>
> >> Call for Papers: IAB Workshop on IP Address Geolocation (ip-geo)
> >> 17 Jul 2025, 6:42 p.m.
> >> This workshop aims to understand the current use cases for publishing,
> discovering, and consuming IP address geolocation data.
> >> Workshop Description
> >> This workshop aims to understand the current use cases for publishing,
> discovering, and consuming IP address geolocation data ('IP-geo'
> hereafter). It will also explore areas for improvement, both in ways to
> update or replace IP geolocation mechanisms, and to consider mechanisms
> that satisfy the use cases without relying on IP addresses.
> >> The IAB seeks short position papers on the topics listed below. This
> list is non-exhaustive and should be interpreted broadly.
> >>
> >> *   Today's Use Cases: How is IP-geo data used today? In particular,
> what are the root challenges, technical needs, or business needs that
> IP-geo data is being leveraged to address?
> >> *   Gaps and Problems: What are gaps or problems with the current
> approaches being used by industry? Are there preferences for particular
> file types? How effective are current approaches? What are the impacts on
> user privacy?
> >> *   Future Opportunities: If we re-designed technical solutions to
> address the motivating use cases, what would those solutions look like? Are
> there alternative approaches that can avoid the gaps and problems we have
> today? Is there value in conveying other information in addition to or
> instead of geography, such as type of last mile network connection?
> >
> > If I were attending and had the power to do so, I would add a discussion
> on how much geolocation is needed and what other approaches are
> >
> > for example:
> >
> > If you are using a mobile device (with an app or browser), you have
> access to the location from the device (either GPS or lower accuracy)
> >
> > If you are using Starlink, it has a GPS in it, make it's location
> available on it's local network and have a way for
> computers/devices/browsers to query the local network for a location.
> >
> > At that point, just about all that remains is traditional fixed location
> services (wired or wireless), and they can leverage a similar approach to
> what I outline for starlink, a service on their local router that provides
> location information for things on the network.
> >
> > Now, if you are not just trying to provide geo-based services, but
> instead analyze IP data in logs to get geo info, this won't help, but
> (recognizing the security limitations of asking the user to provide their
> location), I think it would be both more useful for consumers, and better
> overall to explicitly pass location information rather than try to reverse
> engineer it from the IP addresses.
> >
> > David Lang
> > _______________________________________________
> > Starlink mailing list -- starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net <mailto:
> starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>
> > To unsubscribe send an email to starlink-leave@lists.bufferbloat.net
> <mailto:starlink-leave@lists.bufferbloat.net>
> _______________________________________________
> Starlink mailing list -- starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
> To unsubscribe send an email to starlink-leave@lists.bufferbloat.net
>

[Starlink] Re: Lost in Space: The Limits of Geolocation in a Satellite-Connected World (new article from Geoff Huston)

[David Lang]

Spencer Sevilla wrote:

> I could certainly see some use for IP-based geolocation going forward, less as 
> a concrete primary source and more as a cross-check on other location-based 
> tools for e.g. security purposes.

between VPNs and just incomplete data in the geoip databases, it's questionable 
how useful this is as a security source (it's not worthless, but it's not worth 
a lot) see the poor farm in Kansas that gets all the attention from geoip based 
responses where only the country is known.

David Lang

[Starlink] Re: Lost in Space: The Limits of Geolocation in a Satellite-Connected World (new article from Geoff Huston)

[J Pan]

the fault of the default
https://web.archive.org/web/20160410172437/http://fusion.net/story/287592/internet-mapping-glitch-kansas-farm/
a sad story all cs people shall read before code

similarly at starlink, who is moving their error-prone dns domain

pop.starlinkisp.net
origin = dns31.cloudns.net
mail addr = isp\.abuse.spacex.com
serial = 2025061904
refresh = 7200
retry = 1800
expire = 1209600
minimum = 3600

to

isp.starlink.com
origin = ns1-35.azuregov-dns.us
mail addr = azuredns-hostmaster.microsoft.com
serial = 1
refresh = 3600
retry = 300
expire = 2419200
minimum = 300

but the serial (number) is obviously default. @Nathan Owens alerted
already. hope it fixed
--
J Pan, UVic CSc, ECS566, 250-472-5796 (NO VM), Pan@UVic.CA, Web.UVic.CA/~pan

On Wed, Oct 1, 2025 at 4:05 PM David Lang via Starlink
<starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>
> Spencer Sevilla wrote:
>
> > I could certainly see some use for IP-based geolocation going forward, less as
> > a concrete primary source and more as a cross-check on other location-based
> > tools for e.g. security purposes.
>
> between VPNs and just incomplete data in the geoip databases, it's questionable
> how useful this is as a security source (it's not worthless, but it's not worth
> a lot) see the poor farm in Kansas that gets all the attention from geoip based
> responses where only the country is known.
>
> David Lang
> _______________________________________________
> Starlink mailing list -- starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
> To unsubscribe send an email to starlink-leave@lists.bufferbloat.net

[Starlink] Re: Lost in Space: The Limits of Geolocation in a Satellite-Connected World (new article from Geoff Huston)

[Michael Richardson]

{I don't remember to turn off the signature}

Frantisek Borsik via Starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
    > within that country. The Internet did not adopt a geographic address plan,
    > which means that you will need a lot of additional information to map an IP
    > address to a location at the country or city level."

There is still time to do this :-)
I think
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-hain-ipv6-geo-addr-02
is still a good idea, and I'd still like to do SHIM6.

I also think that it would actually benefit Starlink and OneWeb, given
inter-satellite communications.

[Starlink] Re: Lost in Space: The Limits of Geolocation in a Satellite-Connected World (new article from Geoff Huston)

[David Lang]

Frantisek Borsik wrote:

> https://circleid.com/posts/limits-of-geolocation-in-a-satellite-connected-world
>
> “Where are you?” is not an easy question to answer on the Internet. The
> telephone system’s address plan embedded a certain amount of physical
> location information in the fixed-line network, and a full E.164 telephone
> number indicated your location in terms of your country and your area
> within that country.

it's worth noting that the ability to use your phone number to locate you has 
now been eliminated. The ability to move numbers from landlines to phone and 
from phone to phone means you can't even know what cell carrier a cell phone 
has. I don't know if you can move numbers from phones to landlines, but I would 
be surprised if you can't/

David Lang

> The Internet did not adopt a geographic address plan,
> which means that you will need a lot of additional information to map an IP
> address to a location at the country or city level."
>
> All the best,
>
> Frank
>
> Frantisek (Frank) Borsik
>
>
> *In loving memory of Dave Täht: *1965-2025
>
> https://libreqos.io/2025/04/01/in-loving-memory-of-dave/
>
>
> https://www.linkedin.com/in/frantisekborsik
>
> Signal, Telegram, WhatsApp: +421919416714
>
> iMessage, mobile: +420775230885
>
> Skype: casioa5302ca
>
> frantisek.borsik@gmail.com
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