From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from smtp77.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (smtp77.iad3a.emailsrvr.com [173.203.187.77]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A079D3B29E for ; Thu, 20 Apr 2023 08:14:06 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=evslin.com; s=20220608-p431o605; t=1681992846; bh=EbcWozptCHr8lZ3x3CPRnAzXeJCuUG6xJnpDXTLqLNI=; h=From:To:Subject:Date:From; b=aSS8d71SQLeA+2xKzI5YznmS601spVA1PlLL8liaahY4cjSu5K0ZCmJ5FdhKOlzk5 KA1c36PUzqT+dbklCWKunJ1QmJ4REfE7DRyuPNen3FIkKP58HjifeDcE2j4+s4f96P lnciiFxq94rKFUsKW7h48RN9WWedalWLdjvNuFEI= X-Auth-ID: tom@evslin.com Received: by smtp26.relay.iad3a.emailsrvr.com (Authenticated sender: tom-AT-evslin.com) with ESMTPSA id C70BF1A1F for ; Thu, 20 Apr 2023 08:14:05 -0400 (EDT) From: To: "'starlink'" References: <1272.1681406523@localhost> <8151.1681416108@localhost> <24341.1681947286@localhost> <4f0fa01d97325$3f72e9a0$be58bce0$@evslin.com> In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2023 08:14:05 -0400 Message-ID: <5c06401d97381$99ffe4c0$cdffae40$@evslin.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_5C065_01D97360.12EFF270" X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook 16.0 Thread-Index: AQGfcf8rdV9fcfdN62U6LEUNM3xnMQHQUZLFAoTUVTcCuc6v/wLaY+vwA1TpdBEB5N+N8AHD9/LuAUhPLhmvFqOcUA== Content-Language: en-us X-Classification-ID: 50e7821c-8f8a-4e37-b710-c438159aea0e-1-1 Subject: Re: [Starlink] [E-impact] DataCenters in Space (was Re: fiber IXPs in space) X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2023 12:14:06 -0000 This is a multipart message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_5C065_01D97360.12EFF270 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable The solar collectors should always be on the sun-side of the bird so = effective at creating shade as well. =20 From: Hesham ElBakoury =20 Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2023 7:10 AM To: Daniel Schien Cc: Vint Cerf ; tom@evslin.com; = Michael Richardson ; starlink = ; e-impact@ietf.org Subject: Re: [E-impact] [Starlink] DataCenters in Space (was Re: fiber = IXPs in space) =20 The article about the ASCEND project says: "Very low ambient temperatures in space will dramatically reduce the = need for cooling equipment that consumes enormous amounts of energy. A = significant part of a data center=E2=80=99s energy use is for cooling = equipment, accounting for more than 50% in some facilities. Temperatures = can be as low as -292=C2=B0F (-180=C2=B0C) when an orbiting object is in = the Earth=E2=80=99s shadow." =20 Hesham =20 On Wed, Apr 19, 2023, 10:44 PM Daniel Schien = > = wrote: I assume any object in orbit will be hidden from the sun some of the = time. So, the machines will require some pretty big battery to go up = with them.=20 =20 I'd like to also know what the launch cost is.=20 =20 Tom Segert estimates in his LinkedIn post, for a 100kg satellite = payload: =20 "TL:DR ~57 ton CO2e for a typical ESA satellite (including Ariane 6 = launch), <15t CO2e for a satellite built in a factory and launched with = a re-usable rocket." =20 Depending on the type of server that should go up there, this is a fair = amount of carbon to offset from brighter sunlight. =20 The article also gets the carbon footprint wrong: =20 "Data centers are big energy consumers =E2=80=93 between 2% and 3% of = all global consumption =E2=80=93 a rate that is doubling every year." =20 The latest was IEA estimating it to be around 220-320 TWh (out of = 30,000) in 2021 data and growing between 10-60% over 6 years in total = (so let's than 10 CAGR). But it's certainly not doubling every year. = That's just completely wrong. =20 =20 Daniel Schien Senior Lecturer in Computer Science Department of Computer Science | University of Bristol =09 Submit software engineering project ideas for 2022 =09 bris.ac.uk/software-engineering Watch: https://youtu.be/lU-ZsBDFWDI =09 Merchant Venturers Building , Woodland Rd Bristol, BS8 1UB =09 Book a meeting: = = https://outlook.office365.com/owa/calendar/OfficeHours@bristol.ac.uk/book= i =20 _____ =20 From: E-impact > on behalf of Vint Cerf = = > Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2023 2:16:38 AM To: tom@evslin.com > Cc: Michael Richardson >; = starlink >; e-impact@ietf.org = > Subject: Re: [E-impact] [Starlink] DataCenters in Space (was Re: fiber = IXPs in space)=20 =20 O&M will be a bear=20 v =20 =20 On Wed, Apr 19, 2023 at 9:13=E2=80=AFPM Tom Evslin via Starlink = = > wrote: I think space-based data centers will be the rule rather than the = exception. Wrote about that a couple of years ago although, as usual, = things have not happened as quickly as I predicted = https://blog.tomevslin.com/2021/07/computing-clouds-in-orbit-a-possible-r= oadmap.html -----Original Message----- From: Starlink > On Behalf Of Michael = Richardson via Starlink Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2023 7:35 PM To: starlink >; e-impact@ietf.org = =20 Subject: [Starlink] DataCenters in Space (was Re: fiber IXPs in space) I saw this reported in BIS-Spaceflight. (I'm usually a few months behind in reading it) I like the "first = objective"! https://www.thalesgroup.com/en/worldwide/space/press-release/ascend-thale= s-alenia-space-lead-european-feasibility-study-data Cannes, November 14, 2022 =E2=80=93 Thales Alenia Space, the joint = company between Thales (67%) and Leonardo (33%), has been chosen by the = European Commission to lead the ASCEND (Advanced Space Cloud for = European Net zero emission and Data sovereignty) feasibility study for = data centers in orbit, as part of Europe=E2=80=99s vast Horizon Europe = research program. Digital technology=E2=80=99s expanding environmental footprint is = becoming a major challenge: the burgeoning need for digitalization means that data = centers in Europe and around the world are growing at an exponential = pace, which in turn has a critical energy and environmental impact. The first objective of this study will be to assess if the carbon = emissions from the production and launch of these space infrastructures = will be significantly lower than the emissions generated by ground-based = data centers, therefore contributing to the achievement of global carbon = neutrality. The second objective will be to prove that it is possible to = develop the required launch solution and to ensure the deployment and = operability of these spaceborne data centers using robotic assistance = technologies currently being developed in Europe, such as the EROSS IOD = demonstrator. This project is expected to demonstrate to which extent space-based data = centers would limit the energy and environmental impact of their ground = counterparts, thus allowing major investments within the scope of = Europe=E2=80=99s Green Deal, possibly justifying the development of a = more climate-friendly, reusable heavy launch vehicle. Europe could thus = regain its leadership in space transport and space logistics, as well as = the assembly and operations of large infrastructures in orbit. _______________________________________________ Starlink mailing list Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net =20 https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink _______________________________________________ Starlink mailing list Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net =20 https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink =20 --=20 Please send any postal/overnight deliveries to: Vint Cerf Google, LLC 1900 Reston Metro Plaza, 16th Floor Reston, VA 20190 +1 (571) 213 1346 =20 =20 until further notice =20 =20 =20 --=20 E-impact mailing list E-impact@ietf.org =20 https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/e-impact ------=_NextPart_000_5C065_01D97360.12EFF270 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

The solar collectors should = always be on the sun-side of the bird so effective at creating shade as = well.

 

From: Hesham ElBakoury = <helbakoury@gmail.com>
Sent: Thursday, April 20, 2023 = 7:10 AM
To: Daniel Schien = <Daniel.Schien@bristol.ac.uk>
Cc: Vint Cerf = <vint=3D40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org>; tom@evslin.com; Michael = Richardson <mcr@sandelman.ca>; starlink = <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>; = e-impact@ietf.org
Subject: Re: [E-impact] [Starlink] = DataCenters in Space (was Re: fiber IXPs in = space)

 

The = article about the ASCEND project says:

"Very low ambient temperatures in space will = dramatically reduce the need for cooling equipment that consumes = enormous amounts of energy. A significant part of a data = center=E2=80=99s energy use is for cooling equipment, accounting for = more than 50% in some facilities. Temperatures can be as low as = -292=C2=B0F (-180=C2=B0C) when an orbiting object is in the = Earth=E2=80=99s shadow."

 

Hesham

 

On = Wed, Apr 19, 2023, 10:44 PM Daniel Schien <Daniel.Schien@bristol.ac.uk> wrote:

 

From: = E-impact <e-impact-bounces@ietf.org> on behalf of Vint = Cerf <vint=3D40google.com@dmarc.ietf.org>
Sent: = Thursday, April 20, 2023 2:16:38 AM
To: tom@evslin.com = <tom@evslin.com>
Cc: Michael = Richardson <mcr@sandelman.ca>; starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>; e-impact@ietf.org <e-impact@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: = [E-impact] [Starlink] DataCenters in Space (was Re: fiber IXPs in = space)

 

O&M will be a bear

v

 

 

On = Wed, Apr 19, 2023 at 9:13=E2=80=AFPM Tom Evslin via Starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> = wrote:

I think = space-based data centers will be the rule rather than the exception. = Wrote about that a couple of years ago although, as usual, things have = not happened as quickly as I predicted https://blog.tomevslin.com/2021/07/computing-clouds-in-= orbit-a-possible-roadmap.html

-----Original = Message-----
From: Starlink <starlink-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net> On = Behalf Of Michael Richardson via Starlink
Sent: Wednesday, April 19, = 2023 7:35 PM
To: starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>; e-impact@ietf.org
Subject: [Starlink] = DataCenters in Space (was Re: fiber IXPs in space)


I saw this = reported in BIS-Spaceflight.
(I'm usually a few months behind in = reading it) I like the "first objective"!

https://www.thalesgroup.com/en/worldwide/space/press-re= lease/ascend-thales-alenia-space-lead-european-feasibility-study-data=

Cannes, November 14, 2022 =E2=80=93 Thales Alenia Space, the = joint company between Thales (67%) and Leonardo (33%), has been chosen = by the European Commission to lead the ASCEND (Advanced Space Cloud for = European Net zero emission and Data sovereignty) feasibility study for = data centers in orbit, as part of Europe=E2=80=99s vast Horizon Europe = research program.

Digital technology=E2=80=99s expanding = environmental footprint is becoming a major
challenge: the burgeoning = need for digitalization means that data centers in Europe and around the = world are growing at an exponential pace, which in turn has a critical = energy and environmental impact.

The first objective of this = study will be to assess if the carbon emissions from the production and = launch of these space infrastructures will be significantly lower than = the emissions generated by ground-based data centers, therefore = contributing to the achievement of global carbon neutrality. The second = objective will be to prove that it is possible to develop the required = launch solution and to ensure the deployment and operability of these = spaceborne data centers using robotic assistance technologies currently = being developed in Europe, such as the EROSS IOD = demonstrator.

This project is expected to demonstrate to which = extent space-based data centers would limit the energy and environmental = impact of their ground counterparts, thus allowing major investments = within the scope of Europe=E2=80=99s Green Deal, possibly justifying the = development of a more climate-friendly, reusable heavy launch vehicle. = Europe could thus regain its leadership in space transport and space = logistics, as well as the assembly and operations of large = infrastructures in = orbit.

_______________________________________________
Starlink= mailing list
Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
=
_______________________________________________
Starlink mailing = list
Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink


 

-- =

Please send any = postal/overnight deliveries to:

Vint Cerf

Google, LLC

1900 Reston Metro Plaza, 16th = Floor

Reston, VA = 20190

+1 (571) 213 = 1346

 

 

until further notice

 

 

 

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E-impact mailing list
E-impact@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/e-impact=

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Daniel Schien

Senior Lecturer in Computer = Science

Department of Computer = Science | University of Bristol

Submit software engineering = project ideas for 2022

bris.ac.uk/software-engineering
Watch: https://youtu.be/lU-ZsBDFWDI

Merchant Venturers Building , = Woodland Rd Bristol, BS8 = 1UB

Book a = meeting: https://outlook.office365.com/owa/calendar/Offi= ceHours@bristol.ac.uk/booki