From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from sainfoin-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr (sainfoin-smtp-out.extra.cea.fr [132.167.192.228]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5C7C63CB52 for ; Mon, 30 Oct 2023 08:03:48 -0400 (EDT) Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (pisaure.intra.cea.fr [132.166.88.21]) by sainfoin-sys.extra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id 39UC3l2c032293 for ; Mon, 30 Oct 2023 13:03:47 +0100 Received: from pisaure.intra.cea.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by localhost (Postfix) with SMTP id EF0512050E9 for ; Mon, 30 Oct 2023 13:03:46 +0100 (CET) Received: from muguet1-smtp-out.intra.cea.fr (muguet1-smtp-out.intra.cea.fr [132.166.192.12]) by pisaure.intra.cea.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id E5838203B2D for ; Mon, 30 Oct 2023 13:03:46 +0100 (CET) Received: from [10.8.32.70] (is156570.intra.cea.fr [10.8.32.70]) by muguet1-sys.intra.cea.fr (8.14.7/8.14.7/CEAnet-Internet-out-4.0) with ESMTP id 39UC3kUJ058040 for ; Mon, 30 Oct 2023 13:03:46 +0100 Message-ID: <623cfce5-06cb-4ba2-98d0-808157437ba8@gmail.com> Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2023 13:03:46 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 User-Agent: Mozilla Thunderbird Content-Language: fr To: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net References: <07fac4e4-809a-43ba-b46c-e0f468343e30@auckland.ac.nz> From: Alexandre Petrescu In-Reply-To: <07fac4e4-809a-43ba-b46c-e0f468343e30@auckland.ac.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: [Starlink] "Interesting set of developments with Starlink. Musk says they will support "international aid orgs" in Gaza, Israel now says they will use "all available means" to stop SpaceX from doing so. X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 30 Oct 2023 12:03:48 -0000 It is indeed interesting. Le 30/10/2023 à 06:56, Ulrich Speidel via Starlink a écrit : > > The main problem as it stands with Gaza would be to get Starlink > equipment in for the international organisations to use. Coverage > wouldn't be an issue, but power and bandwidth would be. > I agree with these points. But it is more difficult than that. Indeed, if they can get starlink receivers in the place, then there is need of power to power it.  Maybe it is not easy to find electricity. The bandwidth problem - I dont know precisely what is it in this context.  Maybe it's that there would be too many wifi users on a starlink DISHY. There are more problems: I think I heard Israel opposes this idea of delivery of starlink in that place.  The question is _how_ they'd like to oppose.  Is it verbal opposition, is it opposition of delivery of starlink DISHYs to the aream or is it jamming, or is it something else.  For the latter two, there is legislation in place that would guide the way in which they could oppose, but that legislation is fragile.  For example, is there frequency allocation authority in that area, I'm not sure. Another problem is the statement of intention of activating starlink over the place.  What does it mean in practice.  I suppose it is not that simple as turning a knob on.  Because these numerous sats already go above the area, and the area is very small.  The borders cant be respected very easily from that high. This kind of statement like 'activate starlink' over certain area was already made in the recent past.  And it is the same unclarity, because that area is a small area.  (there are other - more clear - statements like 'turn on iphone sat emergency calls' over other areas in Europe.  But these areas are much larger (4 large countries in Europe).  And they are accomodated by legislation allowing frequency use.  Whereas in the starlink 'activate over area x at war' there is no frequency agreements.) Another problem is that, in case of delivery of starlink DISHYs: _who_ uses starlink in that area at war.  One might deliver starlink terminals in the area at war only to designated persons (e.g. a responsible UN person).  But a skilled person might plug that starlink into an existing cellular basestation for the benefit of all: all regular smartphones might connect to the regular basestation which in turn might reach the Internet via starlink.  At that  point, it's not clear how the responsible UN person might allow only some legitimate' (humanitarian) smartphones to connect to these regular base stations. Alex > It's a pretty dire situation. Palestinian friends of ours have had > extended family killed, the wife's mother is currently visiting here > and can't go back obviously - plus her apartment got flattened in her > absence early on. Then our friend's teenage kids from his previous > marriage got buried under rubble when their mother's place got > flattened, and that was just up to last week. I really need to ask him > what's happened since. They came here because they were sick of Hamas. > > On the ham radio side, I helped a bit with band watch for MARS > (military affiliated amateur radio system) during the first Gulf War > when the local US garrison (Old Ironsides) got sent from Germany to > Saudi Arabia. A lot of them found out the hard way that if you have a > bank account in Germany and you're on deployment, your significant > other doesn't automatically get access to it like apparently they do > in the US, and the army didn't exactly think that it was their > problem, either. Got to listen to a lot of that. First world problems > compared to Gaza, though. > > On 30/10/2023 5:32 pm, Joe Hamelin via Starlink wrote: >> The US did shut down ham radio during WW2. >> >> On Sun, Oct 29, 2023 at 9:27 AM Dave Taht via Starlink >> wrote: >> >> I think that the internet should stay up, connecting people to >> people, >> through all the conflicts we may ever have. The mails kept running - >> although censored - all through world war two - the red cross, >> allowed >> by all sides, to keep it's relief missions running, the churches >> (mostly) doing their job to console the weary... >> >> Many other orgs, like the ITU, and the IETF, are committed to the >> continued free exchange of information, no matter what. >> >> https://www.itu.int/en/about/Pages/default.aspx >> >> I am happy to see a worldwide ISP committed to the same principles. >> >> On Sun, Oct 29, 2023 at 9:07 AM the keyboard of geoff goodfellow via >> Starlink wrote: >> > >> > ➔➔https://twitter.com/dburbach/status/1718638348812595660 >> > >> > -- >> > Geoff.Goodfellow@iconia.com >> > living as The Truth is True >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Starlink mailing list >> > Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net >> > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink >> >> >> >> -- >> Oct 30: >> https://netdevconf.info/0x17/news/the-maestro-and-the-music-bof.html >> Dave Täht CSO, LibreQos >> _______________________________________________ >> Starlink mailing list >> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink >> >> >> >> -- >> -- >> Joe Hamelin, W7COM, Tulalip, WA, 360-474-7474 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Starlink mailing list >> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink >> > -- > **************************************************************** > Dr. Ulrich Speidel > > School of Computer Science > > Room 303S.594 (City Campus) > > The University of Auckland > u.speidel@auckland.ac.nz > http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~ulrich/ > **************************************************************** > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Starlink mailing list > Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink