From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from bosmailout10.eigbox.net (bosmailout10.eigbox.net [66.96.186.10]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 4EF683B29E for ; Tue, 22 Feb 2022 02:47:57 -0500 (EST) Received: from bosmailscan06.eigbox.net ([10.20.15.6]) by bosmailout10.eigbox.net with esmtp (Exim) id 1nMPts-00061X-TB for starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net; Tue, 22 Feb 2022 02:47:56 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=alum.mit.edu; s=dkim; h=Sender:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date: Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Cc:To:From:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=DF3FnuN7h0gdc7NGTNAffiL8V9jFoxkRI4CcZOEDLfA=; b=CWeYdt4TFu5JDDgs2pV5lXXP04 Zys9DQ2ch1ybf1ILeUs6s+gXouJrE2daqSWD94F4ZiXqIC/xbvpjnxNB35NFM3enZihG2CEcV5Qzc pD43ovalMXGC43JpTj4kOKJY+kh70e5FkqFcRQsf0yw93fAuQ8lmD36vc4HPQ66rhLXfNyxTJqqHr CZfUW2Gy6KR3gotAL1BHXPGTnHm+iU56NuCkU8cRcnL5nvKMIHZUBTuOJybP6Bbss69B2pgNk0faG EzNxlwsVgFa9Uo+PgsclXd3Y7JoPcBExlogI9NLFyb2q3GNdD7toZDd9rel73YPGTsEpZWQ2CvPNg 2hCru2BQ==; Received: from [10.115.3.32] (helo=bosimpout12) by bosmailscan06.eigbox.net with esmtp (Exim) id 1nMPts-0001wo-KZ for starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net; Tue, 22 Feb 2022 02:47:56 -0500 Received: from bosauthsmtp16.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.20.18.16]) by bosimpout12 with id y7nt260020LoEWa017nwwm; Tue, 22 Feb 2022 02:47:56 -0500 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=d4VuNSrE c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=2OW49aEHms2tn/AeNJ+rfA==:117 a=nIEF4cAZMyOU5h9mcfI6lg==:17 a=oGFeUVbbRNcA:10 a=6ulraYUaiNAA:10 a=r77TgQKjGQsHNAKrUKIA:9 a=kurRqvosAAAA:8 a=EdueRp3k70iVwVOXDA0A:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=PRH9NmfAUzkMuqE7VU0A:9 a=qHgZwoDbuU6E4q_A:21 a=gKO2Hq4RSVkA:10 a=UiCQ7L4-1S4A:10 a=hTZeC7Yk6K0A:10 a=frz4AuCg-hUA:10 a=kbxRQ_lfPIoQnHsAj2-A:22 Received: from c-67-180-86-211.hsd1.ca.comcast.net ([67.180.86.211]:61489 helo=SRA6) by bosauthsmtp16.eigbox.net with esmtpa (Exim) id 1nMPto-0007SZ-A3; Tue, 22 Feb 2022 02:47:52 -0500 Reply-To: From: "Dick Roy" To: "'David Lang'" , "'Daniel AJ Sokolov'" Cc: References: <1p492142-q944-r494-6s6r-p6q37s57qnq4@ynat.uz> <1F1EB112F8CB446FAB4BF308A76955FA@SRA6> <0ac195f5-3668-4c96-8dec-8a2d59a0bd52@Spark> <866405-s043-n12n-6pqs-46o38r189218@ynat.uz> <38pr9p5s-3ro4-49p9-9535-7o92oqrq62r1@ynat.uz> In-Reply-To: <38pr9p5s-3ro4-49p9-9535-7o92oqrq62r1@ynat.uz> Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2022 23:47:48 -0800 Organization: SRA Message-ID: <6520435B9E534AE6B242E102B15FECF3@SRA6> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0AB5_01D8277D.71086340" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AdgnkltsbhVqMmddSGGGWHthMgwQOQAKnAWw X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE X-EN-UserInfo: f809475445fb8041985048e338e1a001:931c98230c6409dcc37fa7e93b490c27 X-EN-AuthUser: dickroy@intellicommunications.com Sender: "Dick Roy" X-EN-OrigIP: 67.180.86.211 X-EN-OrigHost: c-67-180-86-211.hsd1.ca.comcast.net Subject: Re: [Starlink] Starlink Roaming X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2022 07:47:57 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0AB5_01D8277D.71086340 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit -----Original Message----- From: Starlink [mailto:starlink-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net] On Behalf Of David Lang Sent: Monday, February 21, 2022 6:18 PM To: Daniel AJ Sokolov Cc: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net Subject: Re: [Starlink] Starlink Roaming On Mon, 21 Feb 2022, Daniel AJ Sokolov wrote: > On 2022-02-21 at 13:52, David Lang wrote: >> >> They told me that I could try it, and it may work, may be degraded a >> bit, or may not work at all. They do plan to add roaming capabilities in >> the future (my guess is that the laser satellites will enable a lot more >> flexibility) > > Isn't that a very optimistic assessment? :-) > > Laser links are great for remote locations with very few users, but how > could they relieve overbooking of Starlink in areas with too many users? > > The laser links can reduce the required density of ground stations, but > they don't add capacity to the network. Any ground station not built > thanks to laser links adds load to other ground stations - and, maybe > more importantly, adds load to the satellite that does eventually > connect to a ground station. > > Can laser links really help on a large scale, or are they just a small > help here and there? My thinking is that the laser links will make it possible to route the traffic from wherever I am to the appropriate ground station that I'm registered with as opposed to the current bent-pipe approach where, if I move to far from my registered location, I need to talk to a different ground station. [RR] It is important to remember there is no need to go through a particular ground station. What is necessary is to authenticate the dishy to the network. Authentication servers will probably be distributed so that it can happen quickly and the resulting flows and paths can be configured independently. Currently there are two limits in any area for coverage: 1. satellite bandwidth i 2. ground station bandwidth [RR] It is probably a bit more complicated than this. Since the dishy and the satellites have antenna arrays apparently, lots of smart things can be done (aka SDMA). Whether or not they are being done is the question ;^))))) laser links will significantly reduce the effect of the second one. [RR] Ground stations have "two bandwidths", incoming and outgoing. If one is wired and the other wireless, often the wired (optical fiber) bandwidth far exceeds the wireless just because it can preparing for the future! We know that they can do mobile dishes (they are testing it currently on Elon's gulfstream, FAR more mobile that I will ever be :-) ) David Lang _______________________________________________ Starlink mailing list Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink ------=_NextPart_000_0AB5_01D8277D.71086340 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 

 

-----Original Message-----

From: Starlink [mailto:starlink-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net] = On Behalf Of David Lang

Sent: Monday, February 21, 2022 6:18 = PM

To: Daniel AJ Sokolov

Cc: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net

Subject: Re: [Starlink] Starlink = Roaming

 

On Mon, 21 Feb 2022, Daniel AJ Sokolov = wrote:

> On 2022-02-21 at 13:52, David Lang = wrote:

>>

>> They told me that I could try it, and it may work, may = be degraded a

>> bit, or may not work at all. They do plan to add = roaming capabilities in

>> the future (my guess is that the laser satellites will = enable a lot more

>> flexibility)

> 

> Isn't that a very optimistic assessment? = :-)

> 

> Laser links are great for remote locations with very few = users, but how

> could they relieve overbooking of Starlink in areas with = too many users?

> 

> The laser links can reduce the required density of ground stations, but

> they don't add capacity to the network. Any ground station = not built

> thanks to laser links adds load to other ground stations - = and, maybe

> more importantly, adds load to the satellite that does = eventually

> connect to a ground station.

> 

> Can laser links really help on a large scale, or are they = just a small

> help here and there?

 

My thinking is that the laser links will make it possible to = route the traffic

from wherever I am to the appropriate ground station that I'm registered with as

opposed to the current bent-pipe approach where, if I move to = far from my

registered location, I need to talk to a different ground = station.

 

[RR] It is important to remember = there is no need to go through a particular ground station.  What is = necessary is to authenticate the dishy to the network. Authentication servers will = probably be distributed so that it can happen quickly and the resulting flows and = paths can be configured independently.

 

Currently there are two limits in any area for = coverage:

 

1. satellite = bandwidth          &nbs= p;            = ;            =           = i

2. ground station bandwidth

[RR] It is probably a bit more = complicated than this. Since the dishy and the satellites have antenna arrays = apparently, lots of smart things can be done (aka SDMA). Whether or not they are = being done is the question ;^)))))

 

=

laser links will significantly reduce the effect of the second = one.

 

[RR] Ground stations have = “two bandwidths”, incoming and outgoing. If one is wired and the other wireless, often the wired (optical fiber) bandwidth far exceeds the = wireless just because it can preparing for the future!

 

We know that they can do mobile dishes (they are testing it = currently on Elon's

gulfstream, FAR more mobile that I will ever be :-) = )

 

David Lang

_______________________________________________=

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