[Starlink] run a few scripts behind your starlink dish?

[Starlink] run a few scripts behind your starlink dish?

[J Pan]

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Dave allowed me to ask on this mailing list... ;-)

we are doing research to understand starlink in particular, and
leo-sat networks in general, better and possibly to improve them
further. please see our work at https://www.reddit.com/user/panuvic/

if you have (access to) a starlink dish, could you please run the
attached script behind it. the tr-sl... traceroutes to starlink
backbone ip addresses from your dish through your gateway and pop, and
if your gateway is 100.64.0.1 (if only * * * on your traceroute, you
may have vpn such as tailscale eats return icmp messages from this
address. "tailscale up --netfilter-mode off" can fix it; if you have a
public address option, please replace 100.64.0.1 by your actual
gateway address), ping-... pings your gateway quickly and briefly (if
you can "at" to start it at the beginning of a minute, great)

results from these scripts can help us (and the community at large)
understand starlink gateway, pop and backbone and their evolution
better. e.g., ulrich and his student shared their results with us, and
we can clearly see the satellite-ground station handovers, as well as
mac behaviors

thanks a lot for your help in advance. your viewpoint around the world
will help a lot. cheers.  -j
--
J Pan, UVic CSc, ECS566, 250-472-5796 (NO VM), Pan@UVic.CA, Web.UVic.CA/~pan

[-- Attachment #2: tr-sl-bb-ip.sh --]
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#!/bin/bash

for i in $(seq 108 109); do for j in $(seq 0 255); do traceroute -enm 18 -w 1 149.19.$i.$j; done; done
for i in $(seq 64 66); do for j in $(seq 0 255); do traceroute -enm 18 -w 1 206.224.$i.$j; done; done

[-- Attachment #3: ping-gw.sh --]
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ping -i 0.01 -c 10000 100.64.0.1 > ping-gw-`date "+%y%m%d-%H%M%S"`.txt

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[Starlink] Question on Startlink density

[Jim Forster]

Does Starlink’s beam forming support delivering services to about 100 home stretched over one mile?  The place in question would like to do fiber, but it’s in a senstive area, so getting permits is tricky (cannot use any previously undisturbed land), and so the fiber project has dragged on.  Now SL is available and some are getting it.  That’s fine, but could it support 100 over one linear mile?

Thanks,

  — Jim

Re: [Starlink] Question on Startlink density

[Inemesit Affia]

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What you're planning might we'll be against the Starlink TOS.

Just contact https://old.reddit.com/user/millijuna. He's done something
similar

Beyond that networks are networks. You estimate your peak traffic, find out
the worst case speed on starlink and get software/hardware to shape &
prioritize traffic/users so phone calls work when the WAN can't do video.
Check out libreqos

Also the owner of starlink.sx is on this mailing list and has experience
with this sort of thing

On Wed, Nov 15, 2023, 7:13 AM Jim Forster via Starlink <
starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:

>
> Does Starlink’s beam forming support delivering services to about 100 home
> stretched over one mile?  The place in question would like to do fiber, but
> it’s in a senstive area, so getting permits is tricky (cannot use any
> previously undisturbed land), and so the fiber project has dragged on.  Now
> SL is available and some are getting it.  That’s fine, but could it support
> 100 over one linear mile?
>
> Thanks,
>
>   — Jim
> _______________________________________________
> Starlink mailing list
> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
>

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Re: [Starlink] Question on Startlink density

[Inemesit Affia]

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Get a high performance dish too

On Wed, Nov 15, 2023, 7:55 AM Inemesit Affia <inemesitaffia@gmail.com>
wrote:

> What you're planning might we'll be against the Starlink TOS.
>
> Just contact https://old.reddit.com/user/millijuna. He's done something
> similar
>
> Beyond that networks are networks. You estimate your peak traffic, find
> out the worst case speed on starlink and get software/hardware to shape &
> prioritize traffic/users so phone calls work when the WAN can't do video.
> Check out libreqos
>
> Also the owner of starlink.sx is on this mailing list and has experience
> with this sort of thing
>
> On Wed, Nov 15, 2023, 7:13 AM Jim Forster via Starlink <
> starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>
>>
>> Does Starlink’s beam forming support delivering services to about 100
>> home stretched over one mile?  The place in question would like to do
>> fiber, but it’s in a senstive area, so getting permits is tricky (cannot
>> use any previously undisturbed land), and so the fiber project has dragged
>> on.  Now SL is available and some are getting it.  That’s fine, but could
>> it support 100 over one linear mile?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>   — Jim
>> _______________________________________________
>> Starlink mailing list
>> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
>>
>

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Re: [Starlink] Question on Startlink density

[Jim Forster]

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Oh, sorry, I was not clear. The question is could they support 100 terminals along a mile.  Each a separate consumer residential account.

> On Nov 15, 2023, at 8:55 AM, Inemesit Affia <inemesitaffia@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> What you're planning might we'll be against the Starlink TOS.
> 
> Just contact https://old.reddit.com/user/millijuna. He's done something similar
> 
> Beyond that networks are networks. You estimate your peak traffic, find out the worst case speed on starlink and get software/hardware to shape & prioritize traffic/users so phone calls work when the WAN can't do video. Check out libreqos
> 
> Also the owner of starlink.sx <http://starlink.sx/> is on this mailing list and has experience with this sort of thing

Yeah, I’ve asked Mike :-)

   — Jim

> 
> On Wed, Nov 15, 2023, 7:13 AM Jim Forster via Starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net <mailto:starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>> wrote:
>> 
>> Does Starlink’s beam forming support delivering services to about 100 home stretched over one mile?  The place in question would like to do fiber, but it’s in a senstive area, so getting permits is tricky (cannot use any previously undisturbed land), and so the fiber project has dragged on.  Now SL is available and some are getting it.  That’s fine, but could it support 100 over one linear mile?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>>   — Jim
>> _______________________________________________
>> Starlink mailing list
>> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net <mailto:Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>
>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink


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Re: [Starlink] Question on Startlink density

[David Lang]

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On Wed, 15 Nov 2023, Jim Forster via Starlink wrote:

> Oh, sorry, I was not clear. The question is could they support 100 terminals along a mile.  Each a separate consumer residential account.

ahh, that is going to depend how many other people are in your area. But if it's 
only 100 terminals and nobody else for miles, I don't think there would be any 
problems.

David Lang

>> On Nov 15, 2023, at 8:55 AM, Inemesit Affia <inemesitaffia@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> What you're planning might we'll be against the Starlink TOS.
>>
>> Just contact https://old.reddit.com/user/millijuna. He's done something similar
>>
>> Beyond that networks are networks. You estimate your peak traffic, find out the worst case speed on starlink and get software/hardware to shape & prioritize traffic/users so phone calls work when the WAN can't do video. Check out libreqos
>>
>> Also the owner of starlink.sx <http://starlink.sx/> is on this mailing list and has experience with this sort of thing
>
> Yeah, I’ve asked Mike :-)
>
>   — Jim
>
>>
>> On Wed, Nov 15, 2023, 7:13 AM Jim Forster via Starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net <mailto:starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>> wrote:
>>>
>>> Does Starlink’s beam forming support delivering services to about 100 home stretched over one mile?  The place in question would like to do fiber, but it’s in a senstive area, so getting permits is tricky (cannot use any previously undisturbed land), and so the fiber project has dragged on.  Now SL is available and some are getting it.  That’s fine, but could it support 100 over one linear mile?
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>>
>>>   — Jim
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Starlink mailing list
>>> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net <mailto:Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>
>>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
>
>

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_______________________________________________
Starlink mailing list
Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink

Re: [Starlink] Question on Startlink density

[J Pan]

an old starlink capacity rule of thumb is "100 dishes in a 300 km^2
cell". not sure about the latest as there are more satellites now, and
starlink can shuffle beam among nearby cells too
--
J Pan, UVic CSc, ECS566, 250-472-5796 (NO VM), Pan@UVic.CA, Web.UVic.CA/~pan

On Tue, Nov 14, 2023 at 11:02 PM Jim Forster via Starlink
<starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>
> Oh, sorry, I was not clear. The question is could they support 100 terminals along a mile.  Each a separate consumer residential account.
>
> On Nov 15, 2023, at 8:55 AM, Inemesit Affia <inemesitaffia@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> What you're planning might we'll be against the Starlink TOS.
>
> Just contact https://old.reddit.com/user/millijuna. He's done something similar
>
> Beyond that networks are networks. You estimate your peak traffic, find out the worst case speed on starlink and get software/hardware to shape & prioritize traffic/users so phone calls work when the WAN can't do video. Check out libreqos
>
> Also the owner of starlink.sx is on this mailing list and has experience with this sort of thing
>
>
> Yeah, I’ve asked Mike :-)
>
>    — Jim
>
>
> On Wed, Nov 15, 2023, 7:13 AM Jim Forster via Starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Does Starlink’s beam forming support delivering services to about 100 home stretched over one mile?  The place in question would like to do fiber, but it’s in a senstive area, so getting permits is tricky (cannot use any previously undisturbed land), and so the fiber project has dragged on.  Now SL is available and some are getting it.  That’s fine, but could it support 100 over one linear mile?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>>   — Jim
>> _______________________________________________
>> Starlink mailing list
>> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Starlink mailing list
> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink

Re: [Starlink] Question on Startlink density

[Jim Forster]

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Thanks, that’s helpful.

Would is also be the case that “100 dishes in 3km^2” is ok?  That’s 100x the power density…

  — Jim

> On Nov 15, 2023, at 9:07 AM, J Pan <Pan@uvic.ca> wrote:
> 
> an old starlink capacity rule of thumb is "100 dishes in a 300 km^2
> cell". not sure about the latest as there are more satellites now, and
> starlink can shuffle beam among nearby cells too


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Re: [Starlink] Question on Startlink density

[J Pan]

it's not only about the power density. it's more about the satellite
(and ground station) capacity, and interference among these dishes and
with other devices in the same frequency band

only starlink knows for sure its current capacity. we can do some
inference and envelope estimation. if you have 100 households nearby,
a (mini) "community gateway" might be better
--
J Pan, UVic CSc, ECS566, 250-472-5796 (NO VM), Pan@UVic.CA, Web.UVic.CA/~pan

On Wed, Nov 15, 2023 at 12:05 AM Jim Forster <jim@connectivitycap.com> wrote:
>
> Thanks, that’s helpful.
>
> Would is also be the case that “100 dishes in 3km^2” is ok?  That’s 100x the power density…
>
>   — Jim
>
> On Nov 15, 2023, at 9:07 AM, J Pan <Pan@uvic.ca> wrote:
>
> an old starlink capacity rule of thumb is "100 dishes in a 300 km^2
> cell". not sure about the latest as there are more satellites now, and
> starlink can shuffle beam among nearby cells too
>
>

Re: [Starlink] Question on Startlink density

[David Lang]

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the beam forming is for the link up to the satellite. For the distribution, get 
the ethernet adapter and route things the way you would with any other Internet 
connection.

David Lang


On Wed, 15 Nov 2023, Jim Forster via Starlink wrote:

> Does Starlink’s beam forming support delivering services to about 100 home stretched over one mile?  The place in question would like to do fiber, but it’s in a senstive area, so getting permits is tricky (cannot use any previously undisturbed land), and so the fiber project has dragged on.  Now SL is available and some are getting it.  That’s fine, but could it support 100 over one linear mile?
>
> Thanks,
>
>  — Jim
> _______________________________________________
> Starlink mailing list
> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink