From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from bosmailout09.eigbox.net (bosmailout09.eigbox.net [66.96.185.9]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A679F3B29E for ; Mon, 21 Feb 2022 17:26:32 -0500 (EST) Received: from bosmailscan07.eigbox.net ([10.20.15.7]) by bosmailout09.eigbox.net with esmtp (Exim) id 1nMH8a-0003ZJ-8r for starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net; Mon, 21 Feb 2022 17:26:32 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=alum.mit.edu; s=dkim; h=Sender:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date: Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Cc:To:From:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=bk3brra0lraWt5itotR29QA4uM2svsuJzgnOV3+i3t8=; b=IwvwHhTuzAFML3vQWwrK5KUYtU 2/E27sc+9D8rL9YLZmSeWgpsXf/U4/dbUeW6DEGMYGljcuPxFAS7999vhAzi3VPGq0njjBxyq0P9p UCr1MJDisbToq1XiWB1ObGgkCW659UdE74/kxAagcxQ6gz40A+xuWfOomkebZay9pzh8a/vu6pgD+ Aww91OtlhPfG/ZREzfrT+IjNye8H1udWKiyee1OHwIsTmZFQ+R/sIS4vjJtPwLwyaDP/vvAhaUzpK zGsK6aOB7w7aNqSLmSre/PTv5abUOWPR+62S4NxzlIplst4CeCzy0nSVO688skLnwxSeMlGVWUVPZ bg2YVs2g==; Received: from [10.115.3.32] (helo=bosimpout12) by bosmailscan07.eigbox.net with esmtp (Exim) id 1nMH8Z-0004pn-UP for starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net; Mon, 21 Feb 2022 17:26:31 -0500 Received: from bosauthsmtp16.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.20.18.16]) by bosimpout12 with id xySU2600J0LoEWa01ySXRY; Mon, 21 Feb 2022 17:26:31 -0500 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=d4VuNSrE c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=2OW49aEHms2tn/AeNJ+rfA==:117 a=nIEF4cAZMyOU5h9mcfI6lg==:17 a=oGFeUVbbRNcA:10 a=6ulraYUaiNAA:10 a=r77TgQKjGQsHNAKrUKIA:9 a=kurRqvosAAAA:8 a=9wEFEmgGAAAA:8 a=uherdBYGAAAA:8 a=92aOjiu2oYgkiFwv4IEA:9 a=CjuIK1q_8ugA:10 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=q4DggLCWy1f7lJrYL3wA:9 a=UQFLysa4drdEwnsX:21 a=gKO2Hq4RSVkA:10 a=UiCQ7L4-1S4A:10 a=hTZeC7Yk6K0A:10 a=frz4AuCg-hUA:10 a=kbxRQ_lfPIoQnHsAj2-A:22 a=URuH0njPyasT08JpGQTJ:22 a=Ef4yma5cpRUEJWN9UqBm:22 Received: from c-67-180-86-211.hsd1.ca.comcast.net ([67.180.86.211]:64172 helo=SRA6) by bosauthsmtp16.eigbox.net with esmtpa (Exim) id 1nMH8W-0005fm-Ac; Mon, 21 Feb 2022 17:26:28 -0500 Reply-To: From: "Dick Roy" To: "'Nathan Owens'" , "'David Lang'" Cc: References: <1p492142-q944-r494-6s6r-p6q37s57qnq4@ynat.uz> <1F1EB112F8CB446FAB4BF308A76955FA@SRA6> <0ac195f5-3668-4c96-8dec-8a2d59a0bd52@Spark> <866405-s043-n12n-6pqs-46o38r189218@ynat.uz> In-Reply-To: Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2022 14:26:24 -0800 Organization: SRA Message-ID: <757DFDC9ED074F5989FD3FC9D48A1544@SRA6> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_0A5E_01D8272F.03B37B70" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: AdgnbjLS3YH+HddFQp244gHZ+bEeiQAA9N0g X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE X-EN-UserInfo: f809475445fb8041985048e338e1a001:931c98230c6409dcc37fa7e93b490c27 X-EN-AuthUser: dickroy@intellicommunications.com Sender: "Dick Roy" X-EN-OrigIP: 67.180.86.211 X-EN-OrigHost: c-67-180-86-211.hsd1.ca.comcast.net Subject: Re: [Starlink] Starlink Roaming X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2022 22:26:32 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_0A5E_01D8272F.03B37B70 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Thanks . very interesting and not surprising! _____ From: Nathan Owens [mailto:nathan@nathan.io] Sent: Monday, February 21, 2022 1:59 PM To: David Lang Cc: Dick Roy; starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net Subject: Re: [Starlink] Starlink Roaming Per the debug data, the dish has GPS, a Gyroscope, a Magnetometer, and an Accelerometer. On Mon, Feb 21, 2022 at 1:32 PM David Lang wrote: On Mon, 21 Feb 2022, Dick Roy wrote: > What is involved in "setting the service address"?? fairly simple, enter it in the website or contact support > Do dishy's have IMUs (aka some means for determining attitude w.r.t. the > local gravitational vector and true or magnetic north) or GPS modules (or > both)??? we know the first version has a gps module in it, and you really need a phone to set it up (and the phone app has access to your location) David Lang > I am somewhat skeptical that the system would be able to locate a UT just > based on zero tilt transmissions from the UT. I am guessing something a bit > more complex is transpiring, like some rudimentary form of SDMA (aka > spatio-temporal resource allocation). > > RR > > -----Original Message----- > From: David Lang [mailto:david@lang.hm] > Sent: Monday, February 21, 2022 12:53 PM > To: Mike Puchol > Cc: 'David Lang'; 'Larry Press'; dickroy@alum.mit.edu; > starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > Subject: Re: [Starlink] Starlink Roaming > > that's what happened when I tried to use it ~60 miles away, but when I tried > to > use it ~25 miles away I got the attached error very quickly. > > I've used it at a couple locations 5-10 miles away without a problem > > I asked starlink support about roaming and it's currently not supported, you > can > change the registered location, and if a slot is available, they'll approve > it > and guarantee service (view of the sky permitting). But when you do that you > > give up the slot at your home location and are not guaranteed to be able to > move > it back. > > They told me that I could try it, and it may work, may be degraded a bit, or > may > not work at all. They do plan to add roaming capabilities in the future (my > guess is that the laser satellites will enable a lot more flexibility) > > David Lang > > On Mon, 21 Feb 2022, Mike Puchol wrote: > >> From what I have observed, there is a new "roaming" flag in terminal > properties that determines roaming capability. Mine is false, and I could > not get service if I set the service address too far. >> >> The way the UT does it is, after startup, it moves to zero tilt, then > searches and registers with any passing satellite, likely using a low-rate, > omnidireccional beacon. The backend then informs the terminal if it is out > of its service address, and if so, it will just sit there doing nothing > (although it does periodically send stuff). >> >> Best, >> >> Mike >> On Feb 21, 2022, 23:31 +0300, Dick Roy , wrote: >>> What does your contract say about the "where" you can expect service from >>> your dishy? I suspect the system is capable of tracking all users at all >>> times they're in coverage which is how they could/would enforce a >>> contractual limitation/constraint. >>> >>> RR >>> >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: Starlink [mailto:starlink-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net] On Behalf > Of >>> David Lang >>> Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2022 11:30 PM >>> To: Larry Press >>> Cc: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net >>> Subject: Re: [Starlink] Starlink Roaming >>> >>> tonight I took it to a friends house about 25 miles away and within a > couple >>> min >>> it gave me an error message saying that I wasn't at my assigned location. >>> >>> David Lang >>> >>> On Mon, 21 Feb 2022, Larry Press wrote: >>> >>>> Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2022 07:22:44 +0000 >>>> From: Larry Press >>>> To: David Lang , >>>> Jonathan Bennett >>>> Cc: "starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net" >>>> Subject: Re: [Starlink] Starlink Roaming >>>> >>>> David brought his dish to my location -- about fifty miles from his >>> service loacation and in a different cell and it could not connect. We > had a >>> clear view of the entire sky. He speculated that that was because it was >>> registered to use a specific ground station that was out of range at my >>> place. Does that seem reasonable? >>>> >>>> Larry Press >>>> ________________________________ >>>> From: Starlink on behalf of > David >>> Lang >>>> Sent: Monday, February 14, 2022 12:29 PM >>>> To: Jonathan Bennett >>>> Cc: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net >>>> Subject: Re: [Starlink] Starlink Roaming >>>> >>>> I asked starlink about temp service away from my registered location, > they >>> said >>>> I have two options >>>> >>>> 1. formally change the service location (if approved, guaranteed to > work, >>> but >>>> you aren't guaranteed to be able to change the service location back) >>>> >>>> 2. best effort, set it up and try it. Service may perfect, or may be > worse >>> (all >>>> the way to non-existant) depending on how many other dishes are in use > in >>> the >>>> area. >>>> >>>> I've done some limited testing with my dish within about 15 miles of my >>>> registered location (in both cases with less than optimal sky views) and >>> it's >>>> worked without a hitch. I plan to do a test further away this weekend > (but >>> in a >>>> less populated area, so I have high hopes) >>>> >>>> David Lang >>>> >>>> On Mon, 14 Feb 2022, Jonathan Bennett wrote: >>>> >>>>> It appears that there is now a system in place for Starlink to > re-connect >>>>> even if you are outside your official service cell. For those of us who >>>>> want to use Starlink on vacations or other trips, this is quite the >>>>> development. >>>>> >>>>> --Jonathan Bennett >>>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Starlink mailing list >>>> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net >>>> >>> > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink_ >>> > _;!!P7nkOOY!txPxU76SxJ4JvYe2kDjl5OcuAgSIb7mkHWuCMgt3eSH3Tec--6vePH_RCs0NVt6n >>> 2TE6_9HsG20fOA$ >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Starlink mailing list >>> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net >>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Starlink mailing list >>> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net >>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink >> > > _______________________________________________ Starlink mailing list Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink ------=_NextPart_000_0A5E_01D8272F.03B37B70 Content-Type: text/html; charset="US-ASCII" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Thanks … very interesting and = not surprising!

 

From: = Nathan Owens [mailto:nathan@nathan.io]
Sent: Monday, February = 21, 2022 1:59 PM
To: David Lang
Cc: Dick Roy; starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
Subject: Re: [Starlink] = Starlink Roaming

 

Per the debug data, the dish has GPS, a Gyroscope, a = Magnetometer, and an Accelerometer.

 

 

On Mon, Feb 21, 2022 at 1:32 PM David Lang <david@lang.hm> = wrote:

On Mon, 21 Feb 2022, Dick Roy wrote:

> What is involved in "setting the service address"??

fairly simple, enter it in the website or contact support

> Do dishy's have IMUs (aka some means for determining attitude = w.r.t. the
> local gravitational vector and true or magnetic north) or GPS = modules (or
> both)???

we know the first version has a gps module in it, and you really need a = phone to
set it up (and the phone app has access to your location)

David Lang

> I am somewhat skeptical that the system would be able to locate a = UT just
> based on zero tilt transmissions from the UT. I am guessing = something a bit
> more complex is transpiring, like some rudimentary form of SDMA = (aka
> spatio-temporal resource allocation).
>
> RR
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: David Lang [mailto:david@lang.hm]
> Sent: Monday, February 21, 2022 12:53 PM
> To: Mike Puchol
> Cc: 'David Lang'; 'Larry Press'; dickroy@alum.mit.edu;
> starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
> Subject: Re: [Starlink] Starlink Roaming
>
> that's what happened when I tried to use it ~60 miles away, but = when I tried
> to
> use it ~25 miles away I got the attached error very quickly.
>
> I've used it at a couple locations 5-10 miles away without a = problem
>
> I asked starlink support about roaming and it's currently not = supported, you
> can
> change the registered location, and if a slot is available, they'll approve
> it
> and guarantee service (view of the sky permitting). But when you do = that you
>
> give up the slot at your home location and are not guaranteed to be = able to
> move
> it back.
>
> They told me that I could try it, and it may work, may be degraded = a bit, or
> may
> not work at all. They do plan to add roaming capabilities in the = future (my
> guess is that the laser satellites will enable a lot more = flexibility)
>
> David Lang
>
> On Mon, 21 Feb 2022, Mike Puchol wrote:
>
>> From what I have observed, there is a new "roaming" = flag in terminal
> properties that determines roaming capability. Mine is false, and I = could
> not get service if I set the service address too far.
>>
>> The way the UT does it is, after startup, it moves to zero = tilt, then
> searches and registers with any passing satellite, likely using a low-rate,
> omnidireccional beacon. The backend then informs the terminal if it = is out
> of its service address, and if so, it will just sit there doing = nothing
> (although it does periodically send stuff).
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Mike
>> On Feb 21, 2022, 23:31 +0300, Dick Roy <dickroy@alum.mit.edu>, wrote:
>>> What does your contract say about the "where" you = can expect service from
>>> your dishy? I suspect the system is capable of tracking all = users at all
>>> times they're in coverage which is how they could/would = enforce a
>>> contractual limitation/constraint.
>>>
>>> RR
>>>
>>> -----Original Message-----
>>> From: Starlink [mailto:starlink-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net] On Behalf
> Of
>>> David Lang
>>> Sent: Sunday, February 20, 2022 11:30 PM
>>> To: Larry Press
>>> Cc: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
>>> Subject: Re: [Starlink] Starlink Roaming
>>>
>>> tonight I took it to a friends house about 25 miles away = and within a
> couple
>>> min
>>> it gave me an error message saying that I wasn't at my = assigned location.
>>>
>>> David Lang
>>>
>>> On Mon, 21 Feb 2022, Larry Press wrote:
>>>
>>>> Date: Mon, 21 Feb 2022 07:22:44 +0000
>>>> From: Larry Press <lpress@csudh.edu>
>>>> To: David Lang <david@lang.hm>,
>>>> Jonathan Bennett <jonathanbennett@hackaday.com>
>>>> Cc: "starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net" <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Starlink] Starlink Roaming
>>>>
>>>> David brought his dish to my location -- about fifty = miles from his
>>> service loacation and in a different cell and it could not connect. We
> had a
>>> clear view of the entire sky. He speculated that that was = because it was
>>> registered to use a specific ground station that was out of = range at my
>>> place. Does that seem reasonable?
>>>>
>>>> Larry Press
>>>> ________________________________
>>>> From: Starlink <starlink-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net> on behalf of
> David
>>> Lang <david@lang.hm>
>>>> Sent: Monday, February 14, 2022 12:29 PM
>>>> To: Jonathan Bennett <jonathanbennett@hackaday.com>
>>>> Cc: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>
>>>> Subject: Re: [Starlink] Starlink Roaming
>>>>
>>>> I asked starlink about temp service away from my = registered location,
> they
>>> said
>>>> I have two options
>>>>
>>>> 1. formally change the service location (if approved, guaranteed to
> work,
>>> but
>>>> you aren't guaranteed to be able to change the service location back)
>>>>
>>>> 2. best effort, set it up and try it. Service may = perfect, or may be
> worse
>>> (all
>>>> the way to non-existant) depending on how many other = dishes are in use
> in
>>> the
>>>> area.
>>>>
>>>> I've done some limited testing with my dish within = about 15 miles of my
>>>> registered location (in both cases with less than = optimal sky views) and
>>> it's
>>>> worked without a hitch. I plan to do a test further = away this weekend
> (but
>>> in a
>>>> less populated area, so I have high hopes)
>>>>
>>>> David Lang
>>>>
>>>> On Mon, 14 Feb 2022, Jonathan Bennett wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> It appears that there is now a system in place for Starlink to
> re-connect
>>>>> even if you are outside your official service cell. = For those of us who
>>>>> want to use Starlink on vacations or other trips, = this is quite the
>>>>> development.
>>>>>
>>>>> --Jonathan Bennett
>>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Starlink mailing list
>>>> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
>>>>
>>>
> https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://lists.bufferbloat.n= et/listinfo/starlink_
>>>
> _;!!P7nkOOY!txPxU76SxJ4JvYe2kDjl5OcuAgSIb7mkHWuCMgt3eSH3Tec--6vePH_RCs0NV= t6n
>>> 2TE6_9HsG20fOA$
>>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Starlink mailing list
>>> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
>>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
= >>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Starlink mailing list
>>> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
>>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
= >>
>
>
_______________________________________________
Starlink mailing list
Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink

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