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Thu, 12 Aug 2021 22:34:49 +0000 To: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net References: <7AB190E6-A974-42A4-982F-5071CA45F31E@onholyground.com> From: Ulrich Speidel Message-ID: <786faf6a-988d-ff29-42a6-44b508bf6625@cs.auckland.ac.nz> Date: Fri, 13 Aug 2021 10:34:47 +1200 User-Agent: Mozilla/5.0 (Windows NT 10.0; Win64; x64; rv:78.0) Gecko/20100101 Thunderbird/78.13.0 In-Reply-To: <7AB190E6-A974-42A4-982F-5071CA45F31E@onholyground.com> X-ClientProxiedBy: SYBPR01CA0126.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com (2603:10c6:10:5::18) To SY4PR01MB6979.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com (2603:10c6:10:142::13) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-MS-Exchange-MessageSentRepresentingType: 1 Received: from [IPv6:2001:df0:0:2006:c9e:2142:77be:e5e] (2001:df0:0:2006:c9e:2142:77be:e5e) by SYBPR01CA0126.ausprd01.prod.outlook.com (2603:10c6:10:5::18) with Microsoft SMTP Server (version=TLS1_2, cipher=TLS_ECDHE_RSA_WITH_AES_256_GCM_SHA384) id 15.20.4415.16 via Frontend Transport; Thu, 12 Aug 2021 22:34:49 +0000 X-MS-PublicTrafficType: Email X-MS-Office365-Filtering-Correlation-Id: 3ad41e9e-0695-461b-90af-08d95de164e7 X-MS-TrafficTypeDiagnostic: SYXPR01MB0704: X-MS-Exchange-Transport-Forked: True X-Microsoft-Antispam-PRVS: X-MS-Oob-TLC-OOBClassifiers: OLM:9508 X-MS-Exchange-SenderADCheck: 1 X-MS-Exchange-AntiSpam-Relay: 0 X-Microsoft-Antispam: BCL:0 X-Microsoft-Antispam-Message-Info: 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 X-Forefront-Antispam-Report: CIP:255.255.255.255; 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boundary="------------EB3BC8F079861BC208829F36" Content-Language: en-US Subject: Re: [Starlink] speedtest.net takes a look at sat internet around the globe X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 12 Aug 2021 22:35:04 -0000 --------------EB3BC8F079861BC208829F36 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It always pains me to see "speed" tests like these, especially if the=20 methodology they've used isn't clear. My big gripes: - I strongly suspect that the speed tests here (and in so many other=20 blogs/vlogs) are UDP-based, which doesn't tell me a thing about how much=20 TCP goodput I'll get over any of these links. - Latency is measured between end user and ... what? The satellite=20 gateway? Some imaginary fixed point on the Internet that all our traffic=20 has to to through? Or maybe just speedtest.net's servers, whose=20 locations possibly don't matter one iota for my Internet performance? - If we reasonably assume that the capacity of a Starlink satellite=20 needs to be shared between its users, then few users / satellite equates=20 to a large share of the capacity. From Starlink's front page: "Starlink=20 is available to a limited number of users per coverage area at this=20 time." Guess what? What we see here may not last, but it's sure great=20 for marketing. - Ever wondered why Starlink's bulk of beta users sits between=20 40-something and 50-something degrees of latitude? That's right, because=20 that's where you get the largest concentration of satellites right now,=20 which helps keep the number of users per satellite down. Elsewhere?=20 Tough luck. - At the other end of your terrestrial broadband connection might be a=20 few CDN servers, meaning you and your fellow customers will only need to=20 use the ISP's feed once for that viral cat video everyone wants to=20 watch. Starlink goes direct to site, not to a local ISP. So if your ISP=20 is in space and the CDNs are on the ground, a thousand Starlink users on=20 a satellite wanting to watch the cat video will need to bring it across=20 the satellite a thousand times. Your terrestrial ISP (or even sat-based=20 ISP with a terrestrial network connecting end users) only needs to do=20 this once. But big numbers always look great, don't they? On 13/08/2021 9:22 am, Darrell Budic wrote: > https://www.speedtest.net/insights/blog/starlink-hughesnet-viasat-perform= ance-q2-2021/=20 > =20 > > > Nothing we didn=E2=80=99t know, but interesting comparisons between the 3= sat=20 > companies and fixed breadboard around the world. > > Made me wonder if there=E2=80=99s anyone else contributing to the speed t= ests=20 > in Iowa county, WI, looks a lot like my averages there... > > _______________________________________________ > Starlink mailing list > Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink > --=20 **************************************************************** Dr. Ulrich Speidel School of Computer Science Room 303S.594 (City Campus) Ph: (+64-9)-373-7599 ext. 85282 The University of Auckland ulrich@cs.auckland.ac.nz http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~ulrich/ **************************************************************** --------------EB3BC8F079861BC208829F36 Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

It always pains me to see "speed" tests like these, especi= ally if the methodology they've used isn't clear. My big gripes:

- I strongly suspect that the speed tests here (and in so many other blogs/vlogs) are UDP-based, which doesn't tell me a thing about how much TCP goodput I'll get over any of these links.
- Latency is measured between end user and ... what? The satellite gateway? Some imaginary fixed point on the Internet that all our traffic has to to through? Or maybe just speedtest.net's servers, whose locations possibly don't matter one iota for my Internet performance?
- If we reasonably assume that the capacity of a Starlink satellite needs to be shared between its users, then few users / satellite equates to a large share of the capacity. From Starlink's front page: "Starlink is available to a limited numbe= r of users per coverage area at this time." Guess what? What we se= e here may not last, but it's sure great for marketing.
- Ever wondered why Starlink's bulk of beta users sits between 40-something and 50-something degrees of latitude? That's right, because that's where you get the largest concentration of satellites right now, which helps keep the number of users per satellite down. Elsewhere? Tough luck.
- At the other end of your terrestrial broadband connection might be a few CDN servers, meaning you and your fellow customers will only need to use the ISP's feed once for that viral cat video everyone wants to watch. Starlink goes direct to site, not to a local ISP. So if your ISP is in space and the CDNs are on the ground, a thousand Starlink users on a satellite wanting to watch the cat video will need to bring it across the satellite a thousand times. Your terrestrial ISP (or even sat-based ISP with a terrestrial network connecting end users) only needs to do this once.

But big numbers always look great, don't they?

On 13/08/2021 9:22 am, Darrell Budic wrote:
=20 https://w= ww.speedtest.net/insights/blog/starlink-hughesnet-viasat-performance-q2-202= 1/

Nothing we didn=E2=80=99t know, but interesting compa= risons between the 3 sat companies and fixed breadboard around the world.

Made me wonder if there=E2=80=99s anyone else contrib= uting to the speed tests in Iowa county, WI, looks a lot like my averages there...

______________________________=
_________________
Starlink mailing list
Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
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--=20
****************************************************************
Dr. Ulrich Speidel

School of Computer Science

Room 303S.594 (City Campus)
Ph: (+64-9)-373-7599 ext. 85282

The University of Auckland
ulrich@cs.auckland.ac.nz=20
http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~ulrich/
****************************************************************
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