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boundary="------------PNRtrgrlfX6b7NJRPvdaVMSb" Content-Language: en-US Subject: Re: [Starlink] Starlink for Tonga? X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Tue, 08 Feb 2022 08:22:46 -0000 --------------PNRtrgrlfX6b7NJRPvdaVMSb Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Fiji's unwritten government policy for a long term has been that the=20 Internet exists as an income source for the government. When I was at the University of the South Pacific (USP) in Suva on a=20 short secondment in 2001, you could pick a fresh bunch of tropical=20 flowers for each short e-mail from overseas that arrived. This was just=20 a couple of kilometres from the landing station of the very much=20 operational Southern Cross cable, which had taken over as the main=20 redundant US-NZ-Australia connection, with bandwidth to boot. I was told=20 that USP, as a transnational organisation, had requested permission to=20 connect, and was refused. They had access to a transponder on a Japanese=20 satellite at the time to beam analog video of classes to their=20 "satellite" campuses around the Pacific, and they weren't allowed to use=20 that for Internet either. It's not changed all that much since. I'm told that there's a wall in=20 the cable landing station, and every bit that crosses the wall has a tax=20 slapped onto it. Other countries have similar sensitivities, sometimes because they want=20 to protect a monopoly telco, sometimes because local society doesn't=20 want real Internet (many places are very much church-driven, and I=20 suspect some pastors fear that they might lose the narrative, or people=20 have heard about all the horrible things on the Internet and just don't=20 want it in their village). Sometimes it's because their current=20 satellite provider has them in a stranglehold - they love long-term=20 contracts for little service at exorbitant fees, and some small footnote=20 in the contract says that this special price is only available to them=20 if the island nation shall not buy from anyone else during that period.=20 Typical satellite contracts in the Pacific run for 5 years minimum. Yes=20 that sounds as crook as it is. Note that there are in principle two issues with a LEO provider=20 accessing a country: Providing service there and running gateways there.=20 To prevent Starlink from offering service once they're able to route=20 between satellite, you'd have to ban dishys, and if you want to know how=20 well that works, ask the Iranians for their experience when they wanted=20 to ban satellite TV. Running a gateway is another matter, of course. There's always hope that the Fijian government will eventually=20 understand that the Internet will make it richer if it doesn't try to=20 take a cut, and that more of it is better for them. But they'd like a=20 bit more Internet on the outlying islands as is, and maybe Elon can sell=20 the idea to them? On 8/02/2022 8:49 pm, Daniel AJ Sokolov wrote: > On 2022-02-08 at 00:30, Ulrich Speidel wrote: > > They're not the only place in the Pacific to have these sorts of > > problems, so seeing Starlink show any interest at all is a good thing. > > They might want to start with providing service to all of Fiji. > > Maybe, but my feeling is the local authorities don't want them in their > market? > > What are the chances that the 6 month emergency license Fidschi has > granted to help Tonga will be turned into a normal license that allows > Fidschi residents to use Starlink? > > Cheers > Daniel > _______________________________________________ > Starlink mailing list > Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink=20 > --=20 **************************************************************** Dr. Ulrich Speidel School of Computer Science Room 303S.594 (City Campus) Ph: (+64-9)-373-7599 ext. 85282 The University of Auckland ulrich@cs.auckland.ac.nz =20 http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~ulrich/ **************************************************************** --------------PNRtrgrlfX6b7NJRPvdaVMSb Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

Fiji's unwritten government policy for a long term has been that the Internet exists as an income source for the government.

When I was at the University of the South Pacific (USP) in Suva on a short secondment in 2001, you could pick a fresh bunch of tropical flowers for each short e-mail from overseas that arrived. This was just a couple of kilometres from the landing station of the very much operational Southern Cross cable, which had taken over as the main redundant US-NZ-Australia connection, with bandwidth to boot. I was told that USP, as a transnational organisation, had requested permission to connect, and was refused. They had access to a transponder on a Japanese satellite at the time to beam analog video of classes to their "satellite&= quot; campuses around the Pacific, and they weren't allowed to use that for Internet either.

It's not changed all that much since. I'm told that there's a wall in the cable landing station, and every bit that crosses the wall has a tax slapped onto it.

Other countries have similar sensitivities, sometimes because they want to protect a monopoly telco, sometimes because local society doesn't want real Internet (many places are very much church-driven, and I suspect some pastors fear that they might lose the narrative, or people have heard about all the horrible things on the Internet and just don't want it in their village). Sometimes it's because their current satellite provider has them in a stranglehold - they love long-term contracts for little service at exorbitant fees, and some small footnote in the contract says that this special price is only available to them if the island nation shall not buy from anyone else during that period. Typical satellite contracts in the Pacific run for 5 years minimum. Yes that sounds as crook as it is.

Note that there are in principle two issues with a LEO provider accessing a country: Providing service there and running gateways there. To prevent Starlink from offering service once they're able to route between satellite, you'd have to ban dishys, and if you want to know how well that works, ask the Iranians for their experience when they wanted to ban satellite TV. Running a gateway is another matter, of course.

There's always hope that the Fijian government will eventually understand that the Internet will make it richer if it doesn't try to take a cut, and that more of it is better for them. But they'd like a bit more Internet on the outlying islands as is, and maybe Elon can sell the idea to them?

On 8/02/2022 8:49 pm, Daniel AJ Sokolov wrote:
=20 On 2022-02-08 at 00:30, Ulrich Speidel wrote:
> They're not the only place in the Pacific to have these sorts of
> problems, so seeing Starlink show any interest at all is a good thing.
> They might want to start with providing service to all of Fiji.

Maybe, but my feeling is the local authorities don't want them in their
market?

What are the chances that the 6 month emergency license Fidschi has
granted to help Tonga will be turned into a normal license that allows
Fidschi residents to use Starlink?

Cheers
Daniel
_______________________________________________
Starlink mailing list
Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
--=20
****************************************************************
Dr. Ulrich Speidel

School of Computer Science

Room 303S.594 (City Campus)
Ph: (+64-9)-373-7599 ext. 85282

The University of Auckland
ulrich@cs.auckland.ac.nz=20
http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~ulrich/
****************************************************************
--------------PNRtrgrlfX6b7NJRPvdaVMSb--