From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from wout1-smtp.messagingengine.com (wout1-smtp.messagingengine.com [64.147.123.24]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DE6DA3CB39 for ; Fri, 8 Dec 2023 05:32:00 -0500 (EST) Received: from compute3.internal (compute3.nyi.internal [10.202.2.43]) by mailout.west.internal (Postfix) with ESMTP id C160F3200A34; Fri, 8 Dec 2023 05:31:59 -0500 (EST) Received: from imap43 ([10.202.2.93]) by compute3.internal (MEProxy); Fri, 08 Dec 2023 05:32:00 -0500 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=honson.au; h=cc :cc:content-transfer-encoding:content-type:content-type:date :date:from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :references:reply-to:sender:subject:subject:to:to; s=fm1; t= 1702031519; x=1702117919; bh=AJTWEWp6HqyaEGcX/nMYWnzV6evYELKmQfl eYYnWdYE=; b=Cl71hyDLi4QRFv9dEojUYcF2u4VCsZdYYLIxosNyn6PzWo3h4KS Y8WlfxkKd7CKx+KNbBW/voU1CbcacqloWIvn1Gz9yFaJGEAuzG8ONTt/9HNBPg7y FNhe4MG/VmZaODkmDfLqsU8TUQOeUam2PjbDBGzRkPuoVab/yBKUUP6jiCPynrHQ 85ys061nNDYLOrs3e855cJjIvtjqeBVgfjLQuI6m8z9WfJLWXXbsFN+UArVp9478 RGYEGzf95vhl21FUUU9m6TQ2zst6zywbWnF0nXG0xi8DmAa5sfaPSM4949j9mnbr ejqj6H5RRP6Z5qDj1XI/MySGeM2F5y3XU4g== DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d= messagingengine.com; h=cc:cc:content-transfer-encoding :content-type:content-type:date:date:feedback-id:feedback-id :from:from:in-reply-to:in-reply-to:message-id:mime-version :references:reply-to:sender:subject:subject:to:to:x-me-proxy :x-me-proxy:x-me-sender:x-me-sender:x-sasl-enc; s=fm1; t= 1702031519; x=1702117919; bh=AJTWEWp6HqyaEGcX/nMYWnzV6evYELKmQfl eYYnWdYE=; b=ASHmAyfIJ20T+WncHMed+U+AWyfxzrKx1rNwbcYm2UZvYF+GC6N SWGXLrkKMjy7u3yqMOSKcQbWKKAz/xDKZCGBCLupcxqHAhQas2coUUN1tYYQSNl4 cxnJR4ZJHo/+BzZi1PbQ64I5glf4iqC7DIJa3uN+wzz76T6pxh/jDtEJYT8CLkts 3tw3WamuIaOahCGmgvQtkXW8Sb+de3q46j2031EMhnUTSEsMvH49ALRecnqhgmlf fY8IhezRF2NfxuC3OpA8KQEGlV+Cg9PgMLpFphgDzjXsgDwNqTxTAJI+B2iMXL2V cLKX79GkmZtADxhZgEtNdXCtjxm/RjuWAXA== X-ME-Sender: X-ME-Proxy-Cause: gggruggvucftvghtrhhoucdtuddrgedvkedrudekiedgudejucetufdoteggodetrfdotf fvucfrrhhofhhilhgvmecuhfgrshhtofgrihhlpdfqfgfvpdfurfetoffkrfgpnffqhgen uceurghilhhouhhtmecufedttdenucesvcftvggtihhpihgvnhhtshculddquddttddmne cujfgurhepofgfggfkjghffffhvfevufgtgfesthhqredtreerjeenucfhrhhomhepufht vghvvghnuceosghufhhfvghrsghlohgrthdqlhhishhtshesshhtvghvvghnrdhhohhnsh honhdrrghuqeenucggtffrrghtthgvrhhnpeevkedugedtffeitddtteduvddtudfhvdeu heefveeiieevhfeuueevieekvefhhfenucffohhmrghinhepghhithhhuhgsrdgtohhmpd huvhhitgdrtggrpdhsthgrrhhlihhnkhhishhprdhnvghtpdguvgdrsggspdhnthhtrdhn vghtpdgsuhhffhgvrhgslhhorghtrdhnvghtnecuvehluhhsthgvrhfuihiivgeptdenuc frrghrrghmpehmrghilhhfrhhomhepsghufhhfvghrsghlohgrthdqlhhishhtshesshht vghvvghnrdhhohhnshhonhdrrghu X-ME-Proxy: Feedback-ID: iaed446c2:Fastmail Received: by mailuser.nyi.internal (Postfix, from userid 501) id 07F6F2D40074; Fri, 8 Dec 2023 05:31:59 -0500 (EST) X-Mailer: MessagingEngine.com Webmail Interface User-Agent: Cyrus-JMAP/3.9.0-alpha0-1178-geeaf0069a7-fm-20231114.001-geeaf0069 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-Id: <7a20ea4f-4f16-4584-9f53-1ee3c72afd6f@app.fastmail.com> In-Reply-To: <69da68cf-8746-45f8-9537-8fd8252de115@gmail.com> References: <361ee9d0d01da491a6e2b132317d170b@ausics.net> <75790520d6c8d35beb7248f5f5dff952@ausics.net> <924492fc-6ce4-4e62-82d9-c8f0b50ee96d@gmail.com> <8a807397-edef-4dcc-bfa6-f9c1598cbc77@gmail.com> <69da68cf-8746-45f8-9537-8fd8252de115@gmail.com> Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2023 21:31:35 +1100 From: Steven To: "Alexandre Petrescu" , "Freddie Cash" Cc: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net Content-Type: text/plain;charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [Starlink] Info on IP country ranges X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 08 Dec 2023 10:32:01 -0000 Alex, You get that /56 from Starlink. I've only seen it done using a non-Starlink router (MiktoTik - see https= ://github.com/tyd/mikrotik-starlink-ipv6 for example config) in place of= the supplied one, with an appropriate PoE injector to power the dish. It is definitely a Starlink provided /56, and not obtained via a tunnel = or a third party. I haven't seen this tried using their included router, but would be inte= rested in hearing if DHCP-PD on the LAN segment of the included router y= ields a prefix delegation too. Cheers, Steven On Fri, 8 Dec 2023, at 9:22 PM, Alexandre Petrescu wrote: > Le 08/12/2023 =C3=A0 09:40, Steven a =C3=A9crit=C2=A0: >> You do indeed get a /56, so are able to assign unique /64s to each of= your networks. > > Do you get that /56 from starlink or from somebody else? > > If you use a non-starlink router, it might be that the IPv6 feature of=20 > that non-starlink router gets that /56=C2=A0 from the outside of starl= ink domain. > >> >> Your router obtains an address using SLAAC for your WAN interface fro= m a /64 (not sure if this /64 is unique to each customer or shared). > Ok, good to know. >> >> You can then request a /56 using DHCP-PD (separate to the /64 used on= the WAN interface). > > Yes, it might be indeed that the router (provided by starlink router, = or=20 > not by somebody else) runs a DHCPv6-PD server. > > Alex > >> >> Cheers, >> Steven >> >> On Fri, 8 Dec 2023, at 7:30 PM, Alexandre Petrescu via Starlink wrote: >>> Le 08/12/2023 =C3=A0 06:57, Freddie Cash a =C3=A9crit=C2=A0: >>>> Dishy gets a /64 >>> IF Dishy gets a /64 from the starlink operator then I am afraid one = cant >>> make subnets in home, because each other subnet needs a distinct /64. >>> >>> >>>> and I've tested DHCPv6 on both my Firewalla and my USG. They do pre= fix >>>> delegation to distribute that as a /56 locally. >>> I am afraid it is not possible to make a /56 out of a /64 (the inver= se >>> is true). >>> >>> Alex >>> >>>> No NAT required for IPv6 (incoming or outgoing) connections. And th= ere >>>> doesn't appear to be any restrictions on IPv6 traffic. >>>> >>>> This is with the round Dishy. >>>> >>>> Cheers, >>>> Freddie >>>> >>>> Typos due to smartphone keyboard. >>>> >>>> On Thu, Dec 7, 2023, 3:54 a.m. Alexandre Petrescu via Starlink >>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> >>>> Le 04/12/2023 =C3=A0 19:17, J Pan via Starlink a =C3=A9crit=C2= =A0: >>>> > yes, starlink does respond to its customers' complaints, alt= hough >>>> > sometimes slowly. its ipv4 address acquisition is scattered >>>> around as >>>> > a latecomer to the isp world, and as a global local isp, it'= s more >>>> > troublesome. ip packets have to be tunneled back to its home= pop >>>> where >>>> > nat and other functions happen, sometimes around the world, >>>> causing a >>>> > much higher minimum rtt fluctuation in 15-second handover >>>> > intervals---bad for network protocols and applications. ipv6= can do >>>> > better but currently follows the same route as ipv4---an >>>> incentive to >>>> > promote ipv6 ;-) >>>> >>>> Excellent incentive! >>>> >>>> It would be good to know whether the dishy router obtains a /5= 6 or >>>> a /64 >>>> prefix from the starlink ISP.=C2=A0 That is easy to find out b= y just >>>> looking >>>> at the packets.=C2=A0 This would tell whether a NAT can be avo= ided at >>>> home, >>>> and hence more apps made possible. >>>> >>>> IT would also be good to=C2=A0 know whether the claimed IPv6 a= ccess on >>>> dishy >>>> is via a tunnel (IPv6 in IPv6, or IPv6 in IPv4) or it is 'nati= ve' (no >>>> tunnel).=C2=A0 That will tell many things about additional lat= ency that >>>> might >>>> be brought in by IPv6.=C2=A0 (we'd want less latency, not more= ). >>>> >>>> After that, one can look more at promoting IPv6.=C2=A0 Otherwi= se, IPv6 >>>> might >>>> still look as a hurdle, an obstacle, additional work that is t= oo >>>> little >>>> necessary, or might even be worse than IPv4. >>>> >>>> Alex >>>> >>>> > -- >>>> > J Pan, UVic CSc, ECS566, 250-472-5796 (NO VM), Pan@UVic.CA, >>>> Web.UVic.CA/~pan >>>> > >>>> > On Mon, Dec 4, 2023 at 4:04=E2=80=AFAM Noel Butler >>>> wrote: >>>> >> Thanks, it seems they are trying it on then :) >>>> >> >>>> >> On 04/12/2023 10:44, J Pan wrote: >>>> >> >>>> >> starlink advertises its customer ip address location at >>>> >> http://geoip.starlinkisp.net (not always updated but good e= nough in >>>> >> most cases and traceroute can confirm to some extent as wel= l) >>>> >> -- >>>> >> J Pan, UVic CSc, ECS566, 250-472-5796 (NO VM), Pan@UVic.CA, >>>> Web.UVic.CA/~pan >>>> >> >>>> >> On Sun, Dec 3, 2023 at 4:15=E2=80=AFPM Noel Butler via Star= link >>>> >> wrote: >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> I run an open access usenet server, but only for those with= in >>>> my CC, so access is by IP based on our CC allocations from APN= IC. >>>> >> >>>> >> Because IPv4 exhaustion this changes sometimes with buying >>>> allocations from other regions, and if they get denied access I >>>> encourage them to let us know so we can keep ACL's updated, I'= ve >>>> had a request from a starlink user who claims they are here, b= ut >>>> traceroute shows them in .DE >>>> >> >>>> >> tracing some 217.foo.ad.dr >>>> >> >>>> >> ... >>>> >> 9 ae-6.r21.frnkge13.de.bb.gin.ntt.net >>>> (129.250.3.183) >>>> 290.223 ms 290.180 ms ae-1.r20.frnkge13.de.bb.gin.ntt.net >>>> (129.250.7.35) 28= 0.523 ms >>>> >> 10 ae-1.a03.frnkge13.de.bb.gin.ntt.net >>>> (129.250.3.152) >>>> 290.109 ms 289.667 ms 292.864 ms >>>> >> 11 ae-0.spacex.frnkge13.de.bb.gin.ntt.net >>>> (213.198.72.19) >>>> 279.611 ms 278.840 ms 279.592 ms >>>> >> 12 undefined.hostname.localhost (206.224.65.189) 280.127 ms >>>> 278.506 ms 284.265 ms >>>> >> 13 undefined.hostname.localhost (206.224.65.209) 284.198 ms >>>> undefined.hostname.localhost (206.224.65.201) 274.663 ms 273.0= 73 ms >>>> >> 14 * * * >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> As it is our policy to not collect any user info or issue >>>> user/pass's and=C2=A0 only allow access by IP, I'm hoping some= one here >>>> knows if they are full of it, or does starlink really assign >>>> addresses from anywhere? That one hardly makes sense for user >>>> experience, or maybe starlink has so few users in this country >>>> they haven't bothered changing anything yet? >>>> >> >>>> >> -- >>>> >> >>>> >> Regards, >>>> >> Noel Butler >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> _______________________________________________ >>>> >> Starlink mailing list >>>> >> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net >>>> >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> >> -- >>>> >> >>>> >> Regards, >>>> >> Noel Butler >>>> >> >>>> >> >>>> > _______________________________________________ >>>> > Starlink mailing list >>>> > Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net >>>> > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> Starlink mailing list >>>> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net >>>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Starlink mailing list >>> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net >>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink