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From: Rich Brown <richb.hanover@gmail.com>
To: David Lang <david@lang.hm>
Cc: dan <dandenson@gmail.com>,
	Dave Collier-Brown <dave.collier-Brown@indexexchange.com>,
	libreqos <libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net>,
	Dave Taht via Starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>,
	bloat <bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net>
Subject: Re: [Starlink] [Bloat] [LibreQoS] Enabling a production model
Date: Wed, 29 Mar 2023 13:46:19 -0400	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <829A9509-0B4D-438E-BB59-1592C0B27C98@gmail.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <opnor34q-qr50-qp7s-6rsp-n5oos0os0661@ynat.uz>

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> On Mar 29, 2023, at 1:13 PM, David Lang via Starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
> 
> The problem is that laying cable (or provisioning wifi access to cover the area) is expensive, and if you try to have multiple different companies doing it, they each need a minimum density of users to make it worth their while.

Yes, this stuff is expensive, Here is reasonably current order-of-magnitude cost breakdown for a rural NH town nearby:

1) $55,000 per road-mile to design the system, get licenses to install on the utility poles, "make ready" (to check that the poles are ready for new facilities) and to hang the fiber on the pole. Installing coax would save $5K to $8K per mile.

2) $2,000 to $4,000 per premise to install the drop from the utility pole to the building, bring the fiber into the building and install the router. 

3) Pole rental (in NH) is about $10/pole/year. Divide miles of road by 200 feet between poles to get an estimate of the number of poles.

So density of customers is critical for the business case. That's why there are so many monopoly providers - it's costly to overbuild an already served area.


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  parent reply	other threads:[~2023-03-29 17:46 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 168+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
     [not found] <mailman.2651.1672779463.1281.starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>
2023-01-03 22:58 ` [Starlink] Researchers Seeking Probe Volunteers in USA David P. Reed
2023-01-09 14:44   ` Livingood, Jason
2023-01-09 15:26     ` Dave Taht
2023-01-09 17:00       ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-01-09 17:04       ` [Starlink] [LibreQoS] " Jeremy Austin
2023-01-09 18:33         ` Dave Taht
2023-01-09 19:06           ` David Collier-Brown
2023-01-09 18:54       ` [Starlink] [EXTERNAL] " Livingood, Jason
2023-01-09 19:19         ` [Starlink] [Rpm] " rjmcmahon
2023-01-09 19:56           ` [Starlink] [LibreQoS] " dan
2023-01-09 21:00             ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-13 10:02             ` [Starlink] [Rpm] [LibreQoS] " Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 15:08               ` Jeremy Austin
2023-03-13 15:50                 ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 16:06                   ` [Starlink] [Bloat] " Dave Taht
2023-03-13 16:19                     ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 16:12                   ` [Starlink] " dan
2023-03-13 16:36                     ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 17:26                       ` dan
2023-03-13 17:37                         ` Jeremy Austin
2023-03-13 18:34                           ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 18:14                         ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 18:42                           ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-13 18:51                             ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 19:32                               ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-13 20:00                                 ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 20:28                                   ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-14  4:27                                     ` [Starlink] On FiWi rjmcmahon
2023-03-14 11:10                                       ` Mike Puchol
2023-03-14 16:54                                         ` [Starlink] [Rpm] " Robert McMahon
2023-03-14 17:06                                           ` Robert McMahon
2023-03-14 17:11                                             ` [Starlink] [Bloat] " Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-14 17:35                                               ` Robert McMahon
2023-03-14 17:54                                                 ` [Starlink] [LibreQoS] " dan
2023-03-14 18:14                                                   ` Robert McMahon
2023-03-14 19:18                                                     ` dan
2023-03-14 19:30                                                       ` [Starlink] [Bloat] [LibreQoS] " Dave Taht
2023-03-14 20:06                                                         ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-14 19:30                                                       ` [Starlink] [LibreQoS] [Bloat] " rjmcmahon
2023-03-14 23:30                                                         ` Bruce Perens
2023-03-15  0:11                                                           ` Robert McMahon
2023-03-15  5:20                                                             ` Bruce Perens
     [not found]                                                               ` <CALQXh-PUgix7ApkTi5W8TMKVZfE4fyNk4WeiocZ6QU6R-m7naA@mail.gmail.com>
2023-03-15 17:05                                                                 ` [Starlink] [Rpm] [LibreQoS] [Bloat] " Bruce Perens
2023-03-15 17:44                                                                   ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-15 19:22                                                                   ` [Starlink] [Bloat] [Rpm] [LibreQoS] " David Lang
2023-03-15 17:32                                                               ` [Starlink] [LibreQoS] [Bloat] [Rpm] " rjmcmahon
2023-03-15 17:42                                                                 ` dan
2023-03-15 18:03                                                                   ` Mike Puchol
2023-03-15 19:33                                                                   ` [Starlink] [Bloat] [LibreQoS] " David Lang
2023-03-15 19:39                                                                     ` [Starlink] [Rpm] [Bloat] [LibreQoS] " Dave Taht
2023-03-15 21:52                                                                       ` David Lang
2023-03-15 22:04                                                                         ` Dave Taht
2023-03-15 22:08                                                                           ` dan
2023-03-15 17:43                                                                 ` [Starlink] [Bloat] [LibreQoS] [Rpm] " Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-15 17:49                                                                   ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-15 17:53                                                                     ` [Starlink] [Rpm] [Bloat] [LibreQoS] " Dave Taht
2023-03-15 17:59                                                                       ` dan
2023-03-15 19:39                                                                       ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-17 16:38                                         ` [Starlink] [Rpm] " Dave Taht
2023-03-17 18:21                                           ` Mike Puchol
2023-03-17 19:01                                           ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-17 19:19                                             ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-17 20:37                                               ` Bruce Perens
2023-03-17 20:57                                                 ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-17 22:50                                                   ` Bruce Perens
2023-03-18 18:18                                                     ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-18 19:57                                                       ` [Starlink] [LibreQoS] " dan
2023-03-18 20:40                                                         ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-19 10:26                                                           ` Michael Richardson
2023-03-19 21:00                                                             ` [Starlink] On metrics rjmcmahon
2023-03-20  0:26                                                               ` dan
2023-03-20  3:03                                                                 ` David Lang
     [not found]                                                             ` <CAJUtOOgC8O2jvT7eZ0O8nU8kCPOeCgVPTBNKaA3ZqLpJf4obJw@mail.gmail.com>
2023-03-20 21:28                                                               ` [Starlink] [Rpm] [LibreQoS] On FiWi dan
     [not found]                                                                 ` <CAJUtOOhPsiC=9SM3rUUxWuh4euLbDxVqcrM6hioDykZaWYfy6Q@mail.gmail.com>
2023-03-20 22:02                                                                   ` [Starlink] On FiWi power envelope rjmcmahon
2023-03-20 23:47                                                                     ` Bruce Perens
2023-03-21  0:10                                                                 ` [Starlink] [Rpm] [LibreQoS] On FiWi Brandon Butterworth
     [not found]                                                                   ` <CAJUtOOhinMu4Mv9EW-PB7ef9EHWL3inpeABUqFt0UDAw47MixA@mail.gmail.com>
2023-03-21 11:26                                                                     ` [Starlink] Annoyed at 5/1 Mbps Rich Brown
2023-03-21 12:29                                                                     ` [Starlink] [Rpm] [LibreQoS] On FiWi Brandon Butterworth
2023-03-21 12:30                                                                   ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-21 17:42                                                                     ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-21 18:08                                                                       ` rjmcmahon
     [not found]                                                                         ` <CAJUtOOiMk+PBK2ZRFsZA8EFEgqfHY3Zpw9=kAkJZpePx9OzeMw@mail.gmail.com>
2023-03-21 19:58                                                                           ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-21 20:06                                                                             ` [Starlink] [Bloat] " David Lang
2023-03-25 19:39                                                                             ` [Starlink] On fiber as critical infrastructure w/Comcast chat rjmcmahon
2023-03-25 20:09                                                                               ` Bruce Perens
2023-03-25 20:47                                                                                 ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-25 20:15                                                                               ` [Starlink] [Bloat] " Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-25 20:43                                                                                 ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-25 21:08                                                                                   ` Bruce Perens
2023-03-25 22:04                                                                                     ` Robert McMahon
2023-03-25 22:50                                                                                       ` dan
2023-03-25 23:21                                                                                         ` Robert McMahon
2023-03-25 23:35                                                                                           ` David Lang
2023-03-26  0:04                                                                                             ` Robert McMahon
2023-03-26  0:07                                                                                               ` Nathan Owens
2023-03-26  0:50                                                                                                 ` Robert McMahon
2023-03-26  8:45                                                                                                 ` Livingood, Jason
2023-03-26 18:54                                                                                                   ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-26  0:28                                                                                               ` David Lang
2023-03-26  0:57                                                                                                 ` Robert McMahon
2023-03-25 22:57                                                                                       ` Bruce Perens
2023-03-25 23:33                                                                                         ` David Lang
2023-03-25 23:38                                                                                         ` Robert McMahon
2023-03-25 23:20                                                                                       ` David Lang
2023-03-26 18:29                                                                                         ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-26 10:34                                                                                   ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-26 18:12                                                                                     ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-26 20:57                                                                                     ` David Lang
2023-03-26 21:11                                                                                       ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-26 21:26                                                                                         ` David Lang
2023-03-28 17:06                                                                                         ` Larry Press
2023-03-28 17:47                                                                                           ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-28 18:11                                                                                             ` Frantisek Borsik
2023-03-28 18:46                                                                                               ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-28 20:37                                                                                                 ` David Lang
2023-03-28 21:31                                                                                                   ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-28 22:18                                                                                                     ` dan
2023-03-28 22:42                                                                                                       ` rjmcmahon
2023-03-29  8:28                                                                                             ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-29 12:27                                                                                               ` Dave Collier-Brown
2023-03-29 13:22                                                                                                 ` Doc Searls
2023-03-29 13:40                                                                                                   ` [Starlink] Enabling a production model Dave Taht
2023-03-29 14:54                                                                                                     ` [Starlink] [LibreQoS] " dan
2023-03-29 16:53                                                                                                       ` Jeremy Austin
2023-03-29 18:33                                                                                                         ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-29 17:13                                                                                                       ` [Starlink] [Bloat] " David Lang
2023-03-29 17:34                                                                                                         ` dan
2023-03-29 20:03                                                                                                           ` David Lang
2023-04-02 12:00                                                                                                           ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-29 17:46                                                                                                         ` Rich Brown [this message]
2023-03-29 19:02                                                                                                           ` tom
2023-03-29 19:08                                                                                                             ` Dave Taht
2023-03-29 19:31                                                                                                               ` tom
2023-03-29 19:11                                                                                                           ` Dave Collier-Brown
2023-04-02 11:39                                                                                                             ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-29 13:46                                                                                               ` [Starlink] [Bloat] On fiber as critical infrastructure w/Comcast chat Frantisek Borsik
2023-03-29 14:57                                                                                                 ` [Starlink] [LibreQoS] " Dave Taht
2023-03-29 19:23                                                                                                   ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-29 19:02                                                                                               ` [Starlink] " rjmcmahon
2023-03-29 19:37                                                                                                 ` dan
2023-03-25 20:27                                                                               ` [Starlink] " rjmcmahon
2023-03-17 23:15                                             ` [Starlink] [Bloat] [Rpm] On FiWi David Lang
2023-03-14 18:05                                       ` [Starlink] " Steve Stroh
2023-03-13 19:33                           ` [Starlink] [Rpm] [LibreQoS] [EXTERNAL] Re: Researchers Seeking Probe Volunteers in USA dan
2023-03-13 19:52                             ` Jeremy Austin
2023-03-13 21:00                               ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 21:27                                 ` dan
2023-03-14  9:11                                   ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 20:45                             ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 21:02                               ` [Starlink] When do you drop? Always! Dave Taht
2023-03-13 21:42                                 ` Ulrich Speidel
2023-03-13 16:04                 ` [Starlink] UnderBloat on fiber and wisps Dave Taht
2023-03-13 16:09                   ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-03-13 16:35                     ` Mike Puchol
2023-01-09 20:49         ` [Starlink] [EXTERNAL] Re: Researchers Seeking Probe Volunteers in USA Dave Taht
2023-01-09 19:13       ` [Starlink] [Rpm] " rjmcmahon
2023-01-09 19:47         ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-01-11 18:32           ` Rodney W. Grimes
2023-01-11 20:01             ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-01-11 20:09             ` rjmcmahon
2023-01-12  8:14               ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-01-12 17:49                 ` Robert McMahon
2023-01-09 20:20         ` Dave Taht
2023-01-09 20:46           ` rjmcmahon
2023-01-09 20:59             ` Dave Taht
2023-01-09 21:06               ` rjmcmahon
2023-01-09 21:18                 ` rjmcmahon
2023-01-10 17:36         ` David P. Reed

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