From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail.ausics.net (valhalla.ausics.net [120.88.115.158]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 47BB53B29D for ; Sat, 23 Sep 2023 00:23:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mail.ausics.net (valhalla.ausics.net [10.10.0.10]) (using TLSv1.3 with cipher TLS_AES_256_GCM_SHA384 (256/256 bits) key-exchange X25519 server-signature ECDSA (P-256) server-digest SHA256) (No client certificate requested) by mail.ausics.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 960F8200095; Sat, 23 Sep 2023 14:22:58 +1000 (AEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=ausics.net; s=dkim1; t=1695442978; bh=+O/v9vk+FcJLxVRmt1hbPWk9PN2yOH65WcnF/i+n1WA=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:Subject:In-Reply-To:References; b=FhHKsmq8A3sZPhSyIXL5zi6dpZnDcqcgff317lcPdKjzpFfJcTjgy6YfHxKF7TdKA YS2NhVUQply6HunRwT/JROA5C/zQUxAmp8nhs+p6X21ZgYkEWm1yWMzA1LKKd90J0I AuJ4J9qB0tGerGo5Yi5517+c857CU+Mqop2HFAvjuX6p7Mxh/PHAIuSRpE7BpHervQ /x6CVG7GsbuQXqsdYnqULmzadZkp8Tcq3NeabDsInZppoR6CGBhs+PZn30WlGVXzs2 EZ5cO3RDkn2oIhK0llq5UszR0vkZ8fcsjrFFvkITIbsVAb5OVQPGd8T+veKQN8YlrR 0ArpHkljMhrfA== Received: from 4r+FuHP+ooRQ3jM7VSofZx2zeZ5sWWUupg/U2a7Mi4A= (p6PJJ89nZWD0TJtiiNBt1ZtUYQ6X5B9j) by mail.ausics.net with HTTP (HTTP/1.1 POST); Sat, 23 Sep 2023 14:22:58 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2023 14:22:58 +1000 From: Noel Butler To: Vint Cerf Cc: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net In-Reply-To: References: <9d96e8d6-8a40-4353-b7a3-49881742f1a7@auckland.ac.nz> User-Agent: Roundcube Webmail Message-ID: <83e9b47895d019d282e21bbdd4f4cc57@ausics.net> X-Sender: noel.butler@ausics.net Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="=_a741f260fed9b2bd6f76f9cf4cece102" Subject: Re: [Starlink] APNIC56 last week X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 23 Sep 2023 04:23:01 -0000 --=_a741f260fed9b2bd6f76f9cf4cece102 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Hi Vint, On 23/09/2023 11:47, Vint Cerf wrote: > Noel, IPv4 is only managing to work because it is NATted - going to > IPv6 let's us get back to point-to-point in either direction including > rendezvous. > The present IPv4 situation is NOT good - people are paying $35-50 per > IPv4 address to acquire or even to lease them. For all practical > purposes, IPv4 has run out. > > vint Oh I agree it's not a good situation, but my point was it's still most dominant 30 years after they claimed we had about 5 years, it's like the little boy who cried wolf, if they held off the hysterics until it was proved imminent, I've no doubt the update would be greater and taken more seriously (I've used IPv6 for over 10 years myself), but the global low uptake is what causes ISP's and Telco's to use CGNAT, its free and plentiful, so it still wont be laid to rest for a while yet. IPv6 is only 4% of traffic that hits my Mail Servers, it's less than 1% on my Web servers. Just like TCP, it wont be going anywhere, not quietly, and if it were to, likely be long after I'm gone, QUIC seems an interesting project, and I guess only the decades ahead of us will tell of it becomes a raging success. Cheers --=_a741f260fed9b2bd6f76f9cf4cece102 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=UTF-8

Hi Vint,

On 23/09/2023 11:47, Vint Cerf wrote:

Noel, IPv4 is only managing to work because it is NATted -= going to IPv6 let's us get back to point-to-point in either direction incl= uding rendezvous. 
The present IPv4 situation is NOT good - people are paying $35-50 per = IPv4 address to acquire or even to lease them. For all practical purposes, = IPv4 has run out.
 
vint
 
 
Oh I agree it's not a good situation, but my point was it's still most= dominant 30 years after they claimed we had about 5 years, it's like the l= ittle boy who cried wolf, if they held off the hysterics until it was prove= d imminent, I've no doubt the update would be greater and taken more seriou= sly (I've used IPv6 for over 10 years myself), but the global low uptake is= what causes ISP's and Telco's to use CGNAT, its free and plentiful, so it = still wont be laid to rest for a while yet.
 
IPv6 is only 4% of traffic that hits my Mail Servers, it's less than 1= % on my Web servers.
 
Just like TCP, it wont be going anywhere, not quietly, and if it were = to, likely be long after I'm gone, QUIC seems an interesting project, and I= guess only the decades ahead of us will tell of it becomes a raging succes= s.
 
Cheers
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