From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from vsmx001.dclux.xion.oxcs.net (vsmx001.dclux.xion.oxcs.net [185.74.65.81]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id F1D243B2A4 for ; Thu, 14 Jul 2022 07:15:39 -0400 (EDT) Received: from proxy-1.proxy.oxio.ns.xion.oxcs.net (proxy-1.proxy.oxio.ns.xion.oxcs.net [77.75.176.85]) by mx-out.dclux.xion.oxcs.net (Postfix) with ESMTPA id D1A3A8C03AE; Thu, 14 Jul 2022 11:15:34 +0000 (UTC) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=simple/simple; d=dclux.xion.oxcs.net; s=mail1; t=1657797339; bh=jXqxPpgUt4pkKUwAlIv6IZVzbonsh4ft+wmuzlMWAqk=; h=Date:From:To:Cc:In-Reply-To:References:Subject:From; b=pY4CYnsBjBBl2ILysB6Hljnb1Vj2s4Q8+NQAOyikOwPGGkLRT8cQJc7KyCOmaBmww PhG8FchKzTVkJh2kscSWns625LL+MSZISzSq1qb9k4k+pwCC2MnEhhLv0UlILl32FD DO+LqM8TG57ZAe5oYL5KqAEpII/wO72buk4JvGeqmBnZ1pBEPHgHg+yRhi+2MFvC64 u+fTCN5/D0nS66/QtWSsdMluZEt1T/iyTg50gUoXURe4mCKGbGu9dTZJZFViLAi2h6 SyRnN+M/MZhNnqd1tB4WdgJPd+btRHogHf01AzcIqIJ2FHpF8V5g+bzumpQqpDQMAb RZvQ0hFu4SRzA== Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2022 13:15:26 +0200 From: Mike Puchol To: Larry Press , David Lang Cc: Dave Taht via Starlink Message-ID: <841ca6dc-d6d3-46ab-87c0-d6bcaa31533b@Spark> In-Reply-To: <92n4s129-6r15-7q75-7293-qpo73q298srn@ynat.uz> References: <20220713173602.0582c9b3@spidey.rellim.com> <92n4s129-6r15-7q75-7293-qpo73q298srn@ynat.uz> X-Readdle-Message-ID: 841ca6dc-d6d3-46ab-87c0-d6bcaa31533b@Spark MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="62cffad4_7644a45c_85e5" X-VadeSecure-Status: LEGIT X-VADE-STATUS: LEGIT Subject: Re: [Starlink] starlink at sea X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 14 Jul 2022 11:15:40 -0000 --62cffad4_7644a45c_85e5 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline On the multiple terminals, I have verified that the duty cycle of a consu= mer terminal is 14%, thus, you could have 7 terminals on a single uplink = channel with some guard time. I have seen 30 Mbps up, so you=E2=80=99d be= able to push 210 Mbps in uplink, or a spectral efficiency of about 3.4 b= ps/Hz. =46rom the satellite side, maybe EP=46D limits don=E2=80=99t apply over w= ater bodies, and they can place multiple co-frequency beams onto a single= cell, which would allow throughputs into multiple gigabits per second (i= f no other usage around of course). I=E2=80=99m working on simulating ship scenarios on my tracker, along wit= h other features. Best, Mike On Jul 14, 2022, 09:00 +0200, David Lang via Starlink , wrote: > On Thu, 14 Jul 2022, Larry Press wrote: > > > <=2450k/month (for all their boats) > > > > Do they have ten ships=3F > > I know of 7 off the top of my head, the three drone ships, the multi-pu= rpose > recovery ships bob and doug, they got a couple more recently(named for = females, > don't remember the names reliably), all those recovery ships on the eas= t coast, > so they probably have one or two on the west coast, and I don't think t= hat > includes the dragon recovery craft. > > > > =24150k/month with much better service > > > > Is that for uncapped service from a GEO=3F What speeds do they get fo= r that=3F Do GEO folks like Hughes offer SLAs to business customers=3F > > that was for 25G of bandwidth from the post I saw mentioned, they didn'= t mention > the speed (but they did show the difference in video quality from the b= arges > between the old and new) > > David Lang > > > Does SES offer marine connectivity=3F > > > > Russian oligarchs will be early customers. > > > > Larry Press > > > > =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F > > =46rom: Starlink on behalf= of David Lang via Starlink > > Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2022 5:40 PM > > To: Gary E. Miller > > Cc: Dave Taht via Starlink > > Subject: Re: =5BStarlink=5D starlink at sea > > > > it all depends on what you are comparing it to. This isn't designed f= or a 30 ft > > boat, but rather for commercial operations. SpaceX had talked about h= ow this > > replaces the earlier satellite services they have had on their boats = that were > > unreliable and cost >=24150k/month with much better service listing f= or > > <=2450k/month (for all their boats) > > > > This is designed to be an all-weather allways-on service, most boater= s could > > just use a standard starlink RV setup and put it out when they need i= t (taking > > it down when the weather is poor) > > > > David Lang > > > > On Wed, 13 Jul 2022, Gary E. Miller via Starlink wrote: > > > > > Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2022 17:36:02 -0700 > > > =46rom: Gary E. Miller via Starlink > > > Reply-To: Gary E. Miller > > > To: Dave Taht via Starlink > > > Subject: Re: =5BStarlink=5D starlink at sea > > > > > > Yo Dave=21 > > > > > > On Wed, 13 Jul 2022 17:20:43 -0700 > > > Dave Taht via Starlink wrote: > > > > > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/=5F=5Fhttps://www.royalcaribbeanblog.co= m/2022/06/28/i-tried-elon-musks-starlink-internet-royal-caribbean-cruise-= ship=5F=5F;=21=21P7nkOOY=21rxlTbVxEkw-M=46oqu8DRa85IzMzIO1zBngo2MWxU3hZC2= uf--DSi39Jg1=5FQDz=46Zyl3ShxZ=46NhM0oEQ=46MaJMhpU32Mkw=24 > > > > > > > > > Did you notice the eye popping cost=3F > > > > > > https://urldefense.com/v3/=5F=5Fhttps://www.starlink.com/maritime=5F= =5F;=21=21P7nkOOY=21rxlTbVxEkw-M=46oqu8DRa85IzMzIO1zBngo2MWxU3hZC2uf--DSi= 39Jg1=5FQDz=46Zyl3ShxZ=46NhM0oEQ=46MaJMgLmSbzsw=24 > > > > > > =22High-speed, low-latency internet with up to 350 Mbps download wh= ile at > > > sea. =245,000/mo with a one-time hardware cost of =2410,000 for two= high > > > performance terminals.=22 > > > > > > I know a bunch of yacthies that have been waiting for this, but are= > > > now > > > disappointed. > > > > > > RGDS > > > GARY > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------= -------- > > > Gary E. Miller Rellim 109 NW Wilmington Ave., Suite E, Bend, OR 977= 03 > > > gem=40rellim.com Tel:+1 541 382 8588 > > > > > > Veritas liberabit vos. -- Quid est veritas=3F > > > =22If you can't measure it, you can't improve it.=22 - Lord Kelvin > > > > > > =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F > Starlink mailing list > Starlink=40lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink --62cffad4_7644a45c_85e5 Content-Type: text/html; charset="utf-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Disposition: inline
On the multiple terminals, I have verified that the= duty cycle of a consumer terminal is 14%, thus, you could have 7 termina= ls on a single uplink channel with some guard time. I have seen 30 Mbps u= p, so you=E2=80=99d be able to push 210 Mbps in uplink, or a spectral eff= iciency of about 3.4 bps/Hz.

=46rom the satellite side, maybe EP=46D limits don=E2=80=99t apply over w= ater bodies, and they can place multiple co-frequency beams onto a single= cell, which would allow throughputs into multiple gigabits per second (i= f no other usage around of course).

I=E2=80=99m working on simulating ship scenarios on my tracker, along wit= h other features.

Best,

Mike
On Jul 14, 2022, 09:00 +0200, David= Lang via Starlink <starlink=40lists.bufferbloat.net>, wrote:
=
On Thu, 14 Jul 2022, Larry Press wrote:

<=2450k/month (for all their boats)

Do they have ten ships=3F

I know of 7 off the top of my head, the three drone ships, the multi-purp= ose
recovery ships bob and doug, they got a couple more recently(named for fe= males,
don't remember the names reliably), all those recovery ships on the east = coast,
so they probably have one or two on the west coast, and I don't think tha= t
includes the dragon recovery craft.

=24150k/month with much better service

Is that for uncapped service from a GEO=3F What speeds do they get for th= at=3F Do GEO folks like Hughes offer SLAs to business customers=3F
<= /blockquote>
that was for 25G of bandwidth from the post I saw mentioned, they didn't = mention
the speed (but they did show the difference in video quality from the bar= ges
between the old and new)

David Lang

Does SES offer marine connectivity=3F
=
Russian oligarchs will be early customers.

Larry Press

=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F
=46rom: Starlink <starlink-bounces=40lists.bufferbloat.net> on beha= lf of David Lang via Starlink <starlink=40lists.bufferbloat.net> Sent: Wednesday, July 13, 2022 5:40 PM
To: Gary E. Miller <gem=40rellim.com>
Cc: Dave Taht via Starlink <starlink=40lists.bufferbloat.net>
= Subject: Re: =5BStarlink=5D starlink at sea

it all depends on what you are comparing it to. This isn't designed for a= 30 ft
boat, but rather for commercial operations. SpaceX had talked about how t= his
replaces the earlier satellite services they have had on their boats that= were
unreliable and cost >=24150k/month with much better service listing fo= r
<=2450k/month (for all their boats)

This is designed to be an all-weather allways-on service, most boaters co= uld
just use a standard starlink RV setup and put it out when they need it (t= aking
it down when the weather is poor)

David Lang

On Wed, 13 Jul 2022, Gary E. Miller via Starlink wrote:

Date: Wed, 13 Jul 2022 17:36:02 -0700
= =46rom: Gary E. Miller via Starlink <starlink=40lists.bufferbloat.net&= gt;
Reply-To: Gary E. Miller <gem=40rellim.com>
To: Dave Taht via Starlink <starlink=40lists.bufferbloat.net>
= Subject: Re: =5BStarlink=5D starlink at sea

Yo Dave=21

On Wed, 13 Jul 2022 17:20:43 -0700
Dave Taht via Starlink <starlink=40lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
https://urldefense.com/v3/=5F=5Fhttps://www= .royalcaribbeanblog.com/2022/06/28/i-tried-elon-musks-starlink-internet-r= oyal-caribbean-cruise-ship=5F=5F;=21=21P7nkOOY=21rxlTbVxEkw-M=46oqu8DRa85= IzMzIO1zBngo2MWxU3hZC2uf--DSi39Jg1=5FQDz=46Zyl3ShxZ=46NhM0oEQ=46MaJMhpU32= Mkw=24


Did you notice the eye popping cost=3F

https://urldefense.com/v3/=5F=5Fhttps://www.starlink.com/maritime=5F=5F;=21= =21P7nkOOY=21rxlTbVxEkw-M=46oqu8DRa85IzMzIO1zBngo2MWxU3hZC2uf--DSi39Jg1=5F= QDz=46Zyl3ShxZ=46NhM0oEQ=46MaJMgLmSbzsw=24

=22High-speed, low-latency internet with up to 350 Mbps download while at=
sea. =245,000/mo with a one-time hardware cost of =2410,000 for two high<= br /> performance terminals.=22

I know a bunch of yacthies that have been waiting for this, but are
= now
disappointed.

RGDS
GARY
-------------------------------------------------------------------------= --
Gary E. Miller Rellim 109 NW Wilmington Ave., Suite E, Bend, OR 97703
gem=40rellim.com Tel:+1 541 382 8588

Veritas liberabit vos. -- Quid est veritas=3F
=22If you can't measure it, you can't improve it.=22 - Lord Kelvin


=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F= =5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F=5F
Starlink mailing list
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https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
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