From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail.lang.hm (unknown [66.167.227.145]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id E73E83B2A4 for ; Wed, 31 Aug 2022 14:51:11 -0400 (EDT) Received: from dlang-mobile (unknown [10.2.2.70]) by mail.lang.hm (Postfix) with ESMTP id CBAD5145969; Wed, 31 Aug 2022 11:51:10 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2022 11:51:10 -0700 (PDT) From: David Lang To: Dave Collier-Brown cc: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net In-Reply-To: <137e9404-43ff-3622-96e9-d856e7080b43@indexexchange.com> Message-ID: <843p5371-n712-7poo-7qs0-q54985945352@ynat.uz> References: <1661878433.14064713@apps.rackspace.com> <6p5n9262-3745-pq31-5636-1rnon987o255@ynat.uz> <20220830220710.GA2653@sunf10.rd.bbc.co.uk> <356psp-6n4s-5677-2qs9-1r71r492no@ynat.uz> <20220830223712.GA2921@sunf10.rd.bbc.co.uk> <1661902136.38824194@apps.rackspace.com> <1661905962.73086483@apps.rackspace.com> <137e9404-43ff-3622-96e9-d856e7080b43@indexexchange.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset=US-ASCII Subject: Re: [Starlink] Starlink "beam spread" X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2022 18:51:12 -0000 Except that he has a track record of eventually delivering (late, and not as cheaply as originally thought, but delivering) David Lang On Wed, 31 Aug 2022, Dave Collier-Brown via Starlink wrote: > Mr Musk reminds me of a salesperson I once worked with, who first sold > himself on all the impossible things GCOS could do better that OS/360, and > then set out to convince customers. The occasional customer would ask if he > was barking mad (;-)) Others merely assumed we just hired liars as salesmen. > > --dave > > On 8/30/22 20:32, David P. Reed via Starlink wrote: > > Then Elon Musk is making proposals in bad faith, because he is leading people > to believe that his system can do stuff it clearly cannot do. > > > > Which they proved when they failed to meet the requirements of the US rural > service funding program, after claiming they could. > > > > On Tuesday, August 30, 2022 8:12pm, "David Lang" > said: > > >> I have no problems with people making technical arguments saying that there >> are >> limitations on the service that Starlink can provide (I may argue technical >> specifics or point out things I think you miss, but I won't claim that you >> are >> arguing in bad faith), but when someone then goes beyond that and says that >> what >> it can provide is a level that's unacceptable to Americans or dismissing it >> because fiber is better, then I'll respond and say that the person is >> arguing in >> bad faith. >> >> David Lang >> >> >> On Tue, 30 Aug 2022, David P. Reed wrote: >> >> > Date: Tue, 30 Aug 2022 19:28:56 -0400 (EDT) >> > From: David P. Reed >> > To: Brandon Butterworth >> >> > Cc: David Lang , Brandon Butterworth >> , >> > starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net >> > Subject: Re: [Starlink] Starlink "beam spread" >> > >> > >> > I wasn't starting a discussion about Starlink the business. I was talking >> about Starlink the technology and the "dreams" that people project onto >> that >> technology. >> > >> > I'm happy if the current customers are happy and remain happy. Just >> pointing >> out that there are pretty severe limitations in the physical capabilities >> of the >> technology of the satellites and dishys that will limit how many customers >> can be >> served in an area. >> > >> > I was reacting to the idea Dave Taht brought up that somehow the >> satellites >> can cover "more" area per satellite, if they go to a lower total bit rate >> (175 vs. >> 240 per antenna on each satellite). >> > >> > I'm a radio engineer, trained in stuff like phased array antenna designs, >> and >> power, etc. I'm also a communications protocol engineer, trained in >> multiplexing >> techniques. >> > >> > I'm not saying Starlink engineers are incompetent, but I am saying that >> what >> Musk (who despite the fact that he pretends to be an engineer is not one, >> never >> has been one) has described in his visionary speeches is not what Starlink >> is >> delivering today, and that's because it basically can't be delivered. >> > > > > _______________________________________________ > Starlink mailing list > Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink > > > -- > David Collier-Brown, | Always do right. This will gratify > System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest > dave.collier-brown@indexexchange.com > | -- Mark Twain > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE AND DISCLAIMER : This telecommunication, including any > and all attachments, contains confidential information intended only for the > person(s) to whom it is addressed. Any dissemination, distribution, copying > or disclosure is strictly prohibited and is not a waiver of confidentiality. > If you have received this telecommunication in error, please notify the > sender immediately by return electronic mail and delete the message from your > inbox and deleted items folders. This telecommunication does not constitute > an express or implied agreement to conduct transactions by electronic means, > nor does it constitute a contract offer, a contract amendment or an > acceptance of a contract offer. 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