Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad.
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From: "jf@jonathanfoulkes.com" <jf@jonathanfoulkes.com>
To: Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com>
Cc: bloat <bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net>,
	libreqos <libreqos@lists.bufferbloat.net>,
	Cake List <cake@lists.bufferbloat.net>,
	Dave Taht via Starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>,
	Rpm <rpm@lists.bufferbloat.net>, IETF IPPM WG <ippm@ietf.org>
Subject: Re: [Starlink] [Rpm] the grinch meets cloudflare's christmas present
Date: Wed, 4 Jan 2023 14:20:15 -0500	[thread overview]
Message-ID: <845161E4-474C-44A9-92D4-1702748A3DA1@jonathanfoulkes.com> (raw)
In-Reply-To: <CAA93jw4sbPeZ42eTLQzPmg_-viBBtbdQogAMgMNndoEHjY5UNA@mail.gmail.com>

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HNY Dave and all the rest,

Great to see yet another capacity test add latency metrics to the results. This one looks like a good start.

Results from my Windstream DOCSIS 3.1 line (3.1 on download only, up is 3.0) Gigabit down / 35Mbps up provisioning. Using an IQrouter Pro (an i5 x86) with Cake set for 710/31 as this ISP can’t deliver reliable low-latency unless you shave a good bit off the targets. My local loop is pretty congested.

Here’s the latest Cloudflare test:


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And an Ookla test run just afterward:


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They are definitely both in the ballpark and correspond to other tests run from the router itself or my (wired) MacBook Pro.

Cheers,

Jonathan


> On Jan 4, 2023, at 12:26 PM, Dave Taht via Rpm <rpm@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
> 
> Please try the new, the shiny, the really wonderful test here:
> https://speed.cloudflare.com/
> 
> I would really appreciate some independent verification of
> measurements using this tool. In my brief experiments it appears - as
> all the commercial tools to date - to dramatically understate the
> bufferbloat, on my LTE, (and my starlink terminal is out being
> hacked^H^H^H^H^H^Hworked on, so I can't measure that)
> 
> My test of their test reports 223ms 5G latency under load , where
> flent reports over 2seconds. See comparison attached.
> 
> My guess is that this otherwise lovely new  tool, like too many,
> doesn't run for long enough. Admittedly, most web objects (their
> target market) are small, and so long as they remain small and not
> heavily pipelined this test is a very good start... but I'm pretty
> sure cloudflare is used for bigger uploads and downloads than that.
> There's no way to change the test to run longer either.
> 
> I'd love to get some results from other networks (compared as usual to
> flent), especially ones with cake on it. I'd love to know if they
> measured more minimum rtts that can be obtained with fq_codel or cake,
> correctly.
> 
> Love Always,
> The Grinch
> 
> -- 
> This song goes out to all the folk that thought Stadia would work:
> https://www.linkedin.com/posts/dtaht_the-mushroom-song-activity-6981366665607352320-FXtz
> Dave Täht CEO, TekLibre, LLC
> <image.png><tcp_nup-2023-01-04T090937.211620.LTE.flent.gz>_______________________________________________
> Rpm mailing list
> Rpm@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/rpm


  reply	other threads:[~2023-01-04 19:20 UTC|newest]

Thread overview: 49+ messages / expand[flat|nested]  mbox.gz  Atom feed  top
2023-01-04 17:26 [Starlink] " Dave Taht
2023-01-04 19:20 ` jf [this message]
2023-01-04 20:02   ` [Starlink] [Rpm] " rjmcmahon
2023-01-04 21:16     ` Ulrich Speidel
2023-01-04 23:54       ` Bruce Perens
2023-01-05  2:48         ` Dave Collier-Brown
2023-01-05  3:11           ` Dick Roy
2023-01-05 11:25             ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-01-06  0:01               ` Dick Roy
2023-01-06  9:43                 ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-01-05  6:11         ` rjmcmahon
2023-01-05 11:11     ` [Starlink] [Bloat] " Sebastian Moeller
2023-01-06 16:38 ` [Starlink] [LibreQoS] " MORTON JR., AL
2023-01-06 20:38   ` [Starlink] [Rpm] " rjmcmahon
2023-01-06 20:47     ` rjmcmahon
     [not found]     ` <89D796E75967416B9723211C183A8396@SRA6>
     [not found]       ` <a082b2436e6ba7892d2de8e0dfcc5acd@rjmcmahon.com>
     [not found]         ` <3696AEA5409D4303ABCBC439727A5E40@SRA6>
     [not found]           ` <CAKJdXWBb0VxSSoGAQTe3BXFLXCHd6NSspRnXd1frK2f66SLiUw@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found]             ` <CAA93jw6B_9-WE9EEFuac+FAH-2dcULk=_3i_HfhCSVSOxyM7Eg@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found]               ` <CA+Ld8r8hR8KF35Yv7A3hb1QvC9v9ka2Nh2J=HEm0XhPfvAAcag@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found]                 ` <CAKJdXWC+aEy1b3vB-FFd+tnfT+Ni5O9bZ+p4kkhj-FzMPVGGcQ@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found]                   ` <CAA93jw4DcBhA8CevRQoMbzjO-3Jt+emr+xvnJ-hUGkT+n0KJzg@mail.gmail.com>
     [not found]                     ` <CH0PR02MB79800FF2E40CE037D6802D71D3FD9@CH0PR02MB7980.namprd02.prod.outlook.com>
     [not found]                       ` <CAKJdXWDOFbzsam2C_24e9DLkc18ed4uhV51hOKVjDipk1Uhc2g@mail.gmail.com>
2023-01-13  4:08                         ` [Starlink] insanely great waveform result for starlink Dave Taht
2023-01-13  4:26                           ` Jonathan Bennett
2023-01-13  5:13                             ` Ulrich Speidel
2023-01-13  5:25                               ` Dave Taht
2023-01-13 12:27                               ` Ulrich Speidel
2023-01-13 17:02                                 ` Jonathan Bennett
2023-01-13 17:26                                   ` Dave Taht
2023-01-13 17:41                                     ` Jonathan Bennett
2023-01-13 18:09                                       ` Nathan Owens
2023-01-13 20:30                                         ` Nathan Owens
2023-01-13 20:37                                           ` Dave Taht
2023-01-13 21:24                                             ` Nathan Owens
2023-01-13 20:49                                           ` Dave Taht
2023-01-13 21:25                                             ` Luis A. Cornejo
2023-01-13 21:30                                               ` Nathan Owens
2023-01-13 22:09                                                 ` Jonathan Bennett
2023-01-13 22:30                                                   ` Luis A. Cornejo
2023-01-13 22:32                                                   ` Dave Taht
2023-01-13 22:36                                                     ` Luis A. Cornejo
2023-01-13 22:42                                                     ` Jonathan Bennett
2023-01-13 22:49                                                       ` Dave Taht
2023-01-13 23:44                                                   ` Dave Taht
     [not found]                                                     ` <CALjsLJv5cbfHfkxqHnbjxoVHczspYvxc_jrshzs1CpHLEDWyew@mail.gmail.com>
2023-01-14 14:20                                                       ` Nathan Owens
2023-01-14 15:53                                                         ` Dave Taht
2023-01-14 16:33                                                           ` Dave Taht
2023-01-14 15:52                                                       ` Dave Taht
2023-01-13 20:25                                     ` Pat Jensen
2023-01-13 20:40                                       ` Dave Taht
2023-01-13 22:51                                   ` Ulrich Speidel
     [not found] <mailman.2678.1672860038.1281.starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>
2023-01-04 22:21 ` [Starlink] [Rpm] the grinch meets cloudflare's christmas present David P. Reed
2023-01-05 21:19   ` Christoph Paasch
2023-01-05 22:01     ` Dave Taht
2023-01-05 22:09     ` Sebastian Moeller
2023-01-05 10:07 David Fernández

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