From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from korolev.univ-paris7.fr (korolev.univ-paris7.fr [IPv6:2001:660:3301:8000::1:2]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 5E9B63B2A4; Mon, 18 Sep 2023 08:22:13 -0400 (EDT) Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr [81.194.30.253]) by korolev.univ-paris7.fr (8.14.4/8.14.4/relay1/82085) with ESMTP id 38ICM7kq002212; Mon, 18 Sep 2023 14:22:07 +0200 Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7CBB97173B; Mon, 18 Sep 2023 14:22:06 +0200 (CEST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=irif.fr; h= content-transfer-encoding:content-type:content-type:mime-version :user-agent:references:in-reply-to:subject:subject:from:from :message-id:date:date:received:received; s=dkim-irif; t= 1695039724; x=1695903725; bh=H7+HqmCznX7jl3Kfv1s/H69wozwDjTe2jzY TxldnFBw=; b=XO5xJW1T1fm5LGu2Mn9VvfYzpNgAeEY+pQpdLLpR4/ixg/iuRd6 z3O6B1hqsn7QwrNTquU0q60VRz/i9/oOyySzdlhTdTJucXDqaqW6KHqbIATaFtFI tdv4+/7HyNaJK4pelIM4iJ+eo20kQ+c9h6/TzIAW0Z9/UDu0VPD1xDZ0a1fxFFY1 m/RX8fqbEN1T4xxTnb3NwfOSna5MnOgwwZ9NmtFWIWvliYE1PdfRMefP03W+ZWh6 LrTHdSrqVAwhjFQFFKh1c4rb+gBwc+ppagCcyzTmvBr9niiJu0/ufIYTW7R58xsR p4AwQke0Hg0h3dQ0ClkBLxoZ8WU/5VRIGOg== X-Virus-Scanned: amavisd-new at math.univ-paris-diderot.fr Received: from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr ([127.0.0.1]) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10023) with ESMTP id xsGvaTwRGsaa; Mon, 18 Sep 2023 14:22:04 +0200 (CEST) Received: from pirx.irif.fr (unknown [89.207.171.135]) (Authenticated sender: jch) by mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id D0A5D7190A; Mon, 18 Sep 2023 14:22:02 +0200 (CEST) Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2023 14:21:59 +0200 Message-ID: <874jjrsmc8.wl-jch@irif.fr> From: Juliusz Chroboczek To: Dave Taht Cc: bloat , Rpm , Dave Taht via Starlink In-Reply-To: References: User-Agent: Wanderlust/2.15.9 (Almost Unreal) Emacs/29.1 Mule/6.0 MIME-Version: 1.0 (generated by SEMI-EPG 1.14.7 - "Harue") Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Greylist: Sender IP whitelisted, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.2.7 (korolev.univ-paris7.fr [194.254.61.138]); Mon, 18 Sep 2023 14:22:07 +0200 (CEST) X-Miltered: at korolev with ID 650840EF.001 by Joe's j-chkmail (http : // j-chkmail dot ensmp dot fr)! X-j-chkmail-Enveloppe: 650840EF.001 from mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/null/mailhub.math.univ-paris-diderot.fr/ X-j-chkmail-Score: MSGID : 650840EF.001 on korolev.univ-paris7.fr : j-chkmail score : . : R=. U=. O=. B=0.000 -> S=0.000 X-j-chkmail-Status: Ham Subject: Re: [Starlink] [Bloat] retransmit cost over cellular X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 18 Sep 2023 12:22:13 -0000 Hi Dave! > https://nickvsnetworking.com/mobile-ipv6-tax/ « This means my Android phone consumes 4.5 MB of cellular data in an hour while sitting on the desk, with 16,889 packets in/out. » So even discounting the headers, the phone receives 70 Commodore C64 worth of data when idle. Every freaking hour. « We have 16,889 packets, 6,417,732 bytes in total, minus 97 bytes from each gives us 1,638,233 of headers to drop (~1.6MB) giving us a total of 4.556 MB traffic to/from the phone itself. » The average packet size is 269 bytes. Even if we assume that every second packet is a pure ACK, that's still on the order of just 500 bytes for data packets. Conclusions: 1. The amount of data being received is outrageous, which indicates the use of JSON or XML to encode the data. (See RFC 3252.) (Just kidding, please see RFC 8949 instead.) 2. The packet size is small, which indicates the use of a chatty REST-like API rather than a streaming protocol. The use of streaming has been known since at least the 1970s, and well-documented since the 1990s. For example, both IMAPv4 and Caldav can do streaming synchronisation just fine. 3. The « IPv6 tax » could be reduced by 70% if the packets were reasonably sized. By 90% if the application-layer protocol were efficient enough to allow delack to trigger. Conclusion of the conclusions: 4. The « IPv6 tax » is negligible when compared to the JSON/XML/REST tax. -- Juliusz