[Starlink] First tests of the Starlink REV4 (aka gen3)

[Starlink] First tests of the Starlink REV4 (aka gen3)

[Oleg Kutkov]

I conducted the initial comparative tests of the new terminal in 
Ukraine. I guess it's not a really "legal" because the new terminal is 
not certified and not selling outside the US for the moment. But who cares.

Here's a video: https://youtu.be/hWPMpJrjd1g

I will try to do more technical tests next week. There will be a new video.

-- 
Best regards,
Oleg Kutkov

Re: [Starlink] First tests of the Starlink REV4 (aka gen3)

[Alexandre Petrescu]

Thanks for the tests!

The dl/ul speeds 300/15 mbit/s are impressive.

At video pointer 5:53 the reported Ping ?/dl/ul 88/204/121 ms and Jitter 
9.2 ms seem interesting.

     ==> I am not sure which of the two (ping or jitter) you name 'latency'?

     ==> I am not sure why the dl (download) ping ms is higher than the ul.

     ==> I don't know what is the first ('?') parameter reported as 88ms 
for Ping?

I wonder whether the DHCPv6-PD is still supported by REV4 and whether 
the allocated prefix is still a non-/64 (i.e. a /56 delivered by 
DHCPv6-PD reported earlier on this email list by Steven on Dec. 12, 2023)?

Alex

Le 23/01/2024 à 10:07, Oleg Kutkov via Starlink a écrit :
> I conducted the initial comparative tests of the new terminal in 
> Ukraine. I guess it's not a really "legal" because the new terminal is 
> not certified and not selling outside the US for the moment. But who 
> cares.
>
> Here's a video: https://youtu.be/hWPMpJrjd1g
>
> I will try to do more technical tests next week. There will be a new 
> video.
>

Re: [Starlink] First tests of the Starlink REV4 (aka gen3)

[Oleg Kutkov]

I will try to do better tests this weekend, measuring all the necessary 
parameters. Plus IPv6

On 1/24/24 14:37, Alexandre Petrescu via Starlink wrote:
> Thanks for the tests!
>
> The dl/ul speeds 300/15 mbit/s are impressive.
>
> At video pointer 5:53 the reported Ping ?/dl/ul 88/204/121 ms and 
> Jitter 9.2 ms seem interesting.
>
>     ==> I am not sure which of the two (ping or jitter) you name 
> 'latency'?
>
>     ==> I am not sure why the dl (download) ping ms is higher than the 
> ul.
>
>     ==> I don't know what is the first ('?') parameter reported as 
> 88ms for Ping?
>
> I wonder whether the DHCPv6-PD is still supported by REV4 and whether 
> the allocated prefix is still a non-/64 (i.e. a /56 delivered by 
> DHCPv6-PD reported earlier on this email list by Steven on Dec. 12, 
> 2023)?
>
> Alex
>
> Le 23/01/2024 à 10:07, Oleg Kutkov via Starlink a écrit :
>> I conducted the initial comparative tests of the new terminal in 
>> Ukraine. I guess it's not a really "legal" because the new terminal 
>> is not certified and not selling outside the US for the moment. But 
>> who cares.
>>
>> Here's a video: https://youtu.be/hWPMpJrjd1g
>>
>> I will try to do more technical tests next week. There will be a new 
>> video.
>>
> _______________________________________________
> Starlink mailing list
> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink

-- 
Best regards,
Oleg Kutkov

Re: [Starlink] First tests of the Starlink REV4 (aka gen3)

[Jonathan Bennett]

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I'm mainly curious if the move back to RJ45 means they are now using a real
POE standard, instead of the custom solution the previous generations have
used.

Jonathan Bennett
Hackaday.com


On Wed, Jan 24, 2024 at 4:47 PM Oleg Kutkov via Starlink <
starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:

> I will try to do better tests this weekend, measuring all the necessary
> parameters. Plus IPv6
>
> On 1/24/24 14:37, Alexandre Petrescu via Starlink wrote:
> > Thanks for the tests!
> >
> > The dl/ul speeds 300/15 mbit/s are impressive.
> >
> > At video pointer 5:53 the reported Ping ?/dl/ul 88/204/121 ms and
> > Jitter 9.2 ms seem interesting.
> >
> >     ==> I am not sure which of the two (ping or jitter) you name
> > 'latency'?
> >
> >     ==> I am not sure why the dl (download) ping ms is higher than the
> > ul.
> >
> >     ==> I don't know what is the first ('?') parameter reported as
> > 88ms for Ping?
> >
> > I wonder whether the DHCPv6-PD is still supported by REV4 and whether
> > the allocated prefix is still a non-/64 (i.e. a /56 delivered by
> > DHCPv6-PD reported earlier on this email list by Steven on Dec. 12,
> > 2023)?
> >
> > Alex
> >
> > Le 23/01/2024 à 10:07, Oleg Kutkov via Starlink a écrit :
> >> I conducted the initial comparative tests of the new terminal in
> >> Ukraine. I guess it's not a really "legal" because the new terminal
> >> is not certified and not selling outside the US for the moment. But
> >> who cares.
> >>
> >> Here's a video: https://youtu.be/hWPMpJrjd1g
> >>
> >> I will try to do more technical tests next week. There will be a new
> >> video.
> >>
> > _______________________________________________
> > Starlink mailing list
> > Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
> > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
>
> --
> Best regards,
> Oleg Kutkov
>
> _______________________________________________
> Starlink mailing list
> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
>

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Re: [Starlink] First tests of the Starlink REV4 (aka gen3)

[Oleg Kutkov]

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The PoE "standard" is the same.

Thus, you can power the new terminal with any Starlink PoE injector 
(even REV1).

On 1/25/24 01:40, Jonathan Bennett wrote:
> I'm mainly curious if the move back to RJ45 means they are now using a 
> real POE standard, instead of the custom solution the previous 
> generations have used.
>
> Jonathan Bennett
> Hackaday.com
>
>
> On Wed, Jan 24, 2024 at 4:47 PM Oleg Kutkov via Starlink 
> <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>
>     I will try to do better tests this weekend, measuring all the
>     necessary
>     parameters. Plus IPv6
>
>     On 1/24/24 14:37, Alexandre Petrescu via Starlink wrote:
>     > Thanks for the tests!
>     >
>     > The dl/ul speeds 300/15 mbit/s are impressive.
>     >
>     > At video pointer 5:53 the reported Ping ?/dl/ul 88/204/121 ms and
>     > Jitter 9.2 ms seem interesting.
>     >
>     >     ==> I am not sure which of the two (ping or jitter) you name
>     > 'latency'?
>     >
>     >     ==> I am not sure why the dl (download) ping ms is higher
>     than the
>     > ul.
>     >
>     >     ==> I don't know what is the first ('?') parameter reported as
>     > 88ms for Ping?
>     >
>     > I wonder whether the DHCPv6-PD is still supported by REV4 and
>     whether
>     > the allocated prefix is still a non-/64 (i.e. a /56 delivered by
>     > DHCPv6-PD reported earlier on this email list by Steven on Dec. 12,
>     > 2023)?
>     >
>     > Alex
>     >
>     > Le 23/01/2024 à 10:07, Oleg Kutkov via Starlink a écrit :
>     >> I conducted the initial comparative tests of the new terminal in
>     >> Ukraine. I guess it's not a really "legal" because the new
>     terminal
>     >> is not certified and not selling outside the US for the moment.
>     But
>     >> who cares.
>     >>
>     >> Here's a video: https://youtu.be/hWPMpJrjd1g
>     >>
>     >> I will try to do more technical tests next week. There will be
>     a new
>     >> video.
>     >>
>     > _______________________________________________
>     > Starlink mailing list
>     > Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
>     > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
>
>     -- 
>     Best regards,
>     Oleg Kutkov
>
>     _______________________________________________
>     Starlink mailing list
>     Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
>     https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
>
-- 
Best regards,
Oleg Kutkov

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Re: [Starlink] First tests of the Starlink REV4 (aka gen3)

[David Lang]

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On Thu, 25 Jan 2024, Oleg Kutkov via Starlink wrote:

> The PoE "standard" is the same.

That is true, but the pinout is slightly different on the articulated dish

David Lang

> Thus, you can power the new terminal with any Starlink PoE injector (even 
> REV1).
>
> On 1/25/24 01:40, Jonathan Bennett wrote:
>> I'm mainly curious if the move back to RJ45 means they are now using a real 
>> POE standard, instead of the custom solution the previous generations have 
>> used.
>> 
>> Jonathan Bennett
>> Hackaday.com
>> 
>> 
>> On Wed, Jan 24, 2024 at 4:47 PM Oleg Kutkov via Starlink 
>> <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net> wrote:
>>
>>     I will try to do better tests this weekend, measuring all the
>>     necessary
>>     parameters. Plus IPv6
>>
>>     On 1/24/24 14:37, Alexandre Petrescu via Starlink wrote:
>>     > Thanks for the tests!
>>     >
>>     > The dl/ul speeds 300/15 mbit/s are impressive.
>>     >
>>     > At video pointer 5:53 the reported Ping ?/dl/ul 88/204/121 ms and
>>     > Jitter 9.2 ms seem interesting.
>>     >
>>     >     ==> I am not sure which of the two (ping or jitter) you name
>>     > 'latency'?
>>     >
>>     >     ==> I am not sure why the dl (download) ping ms is higher
>>     than the
>>     > ul.
>>     >
>>     >     ==> I don't know what is the first ('?') parameter reported as
>>     > 88ms for Ping?
>>     >
>>     > I wonder whether the DHCPv6-PD is still supported by REV4 and
>>     whether
>>     > the allocated prefix is still a non-/64 (i.e. a /56 delivered by
>>     > DHCPv6-PD reported earlier on this email list by Steven on Dec. 12,
>>     > 2023)?
>>     >
>>     > Alex
>>     >
>>     > Le 23/01/2024 à 10:07, Oleg Kutkov via Starlink a écrit :
>>     >> I conducted the initial comparative tests of the new terminal in
>>     >> Ukraine. I guess it's not a really "legal" because the new
>>     terminal
>>     >> is not certified and not selling outside the US for the moment.
>>     But
>>     >> who cares.
>>     >>
>>     >> Here's a video: https://youtu.be/hWPMpJrjd1g
>>     >>
>>     >> I will try to do more technical tests next week. There will be
>>     a new
>>     >> video.
>>     >>
>>     > _______________________________________________
>>     > Starlink mailing list
>>     > Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
>>     > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
>>
>>     --     Best regards,
>>     Oleg Kutkov
>>
>>     _______________________________________________
>>     Starlink mailing list
>>     Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
>>     https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
>> 
>

Re: [Starlink] First tests of the Starlink REV4 (aka gen3)

[Ulrich Speidel]

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On 25/01/2024 1:37 am, Alexandre Petrescu via Starlink wrote:
> Thanks for the tests!
>
> The dl/ul speeds 300/15 mbit/s are impressive.

"Speeds" (observed data rates) in terms of Starlink hardware are 
actually fairly meaningless as they depend on:

  * Satellite(s) involved in the data transfer over the duration of the
    measurement(s).
  * Load on those satellites, which depends on the number of other
    current users whose traffic goes via those birds, and what these
    users are up to. Note this changes between handovers.
  * RTT to other end of transfer path.
  * Packet loss (including beyond Starlink's network)

Unless a Dishy is able to handle communication via multiple satellites 
in parallel, I would expect the rates to be the same more or less 
regardless of model used. In fact, I would expect a Dishy model that is 
able to align itself to do marginally better over time.

>
> At video pointer 5:53 the reported Ping ?/dl/ul 88/204/121 ms and Jitter
> 9.2 ms seem interesting.
>
>     ==> I am not sure which of the two (ping or jitter) you name 
> 'latency'?
All of them I guess.
>
>     ==> I am not sure why the dl (download) ping ms is higher than the ul.
Because that is where you have the longer queues.
>
>     ==> I don't know what is the first ('?') parameter reported as 88ms
> for Ping?

I presume unloaded ping RTT. The second is ping RTT during the download 
test (with inbound queues loaded), the last is ping RTT during the 
upload test (with outbound queues loaded).

I'd also note here that these are values obtained from Kyiv, which isn't 
a Starlink environment that is easy to assess. For one, we don't know 
whether there are Starlink gateways in Ukraine, or if there are, where 
they'd be. We know that there aren't any in Russia or Belarus. We know 
that there are gateways in Turkey, Poland and Lithuania and further 
afield that can reach satellites that users in Ukraine can reach by 
direct RF link. We don't know where else there may be gateways - not 
every jurisdiction publishes this - or whether Starlink may even be 
operating opportunistic fair weather optical gateways which they don't 
have to disclose to anyone. Plus we don't know what may be carted into 
the area or away from it via laser links to gateways much further away.

>
> I wonder whether the DHCPv6-PD is still supported by REV4 and whether
> the allocated prefix is still a non-/64 (i.e. a /56 delivered by
> DHCPv6-PD reported earlier on this email list by Steven on Dec. 12, 2023)?
>
> Alex
>
> Le 23/01/2024 à 10:07, Oleg Kutkov via Starlink a écrit :
> > I conducted the initial comparative tests of the new terminal in
> > Ukraine. I guess it's not a really "legal" because the new terminal is
> > not certified and not selling outside the US for the moment. But who
> > cares.
> >
> > Here's a video: https://youtu.be/hWPMpJrjd1g 
> <https://youtu.be/hWPMpJrjd1g>
> >
> > I will try to do more technical tests next week. There will be a new
> > video.
> >
> _______________________________________________
> Starlink mailing list
> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink 
> <https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink>

-- 
****************************************************************
Dr. Ulrich Speidel

School of Computer Science

Room 303S.594 (City Campus)

The University of Auckland
u.speidel@auckland.ac.nz  
http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~ulrich/
****************************************************************



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Re: [Starlink] First tests of the Starlink REV4 (aka gen3)

[Alexandre Petrescu]

Le 25/01/2024 à 02:54, Ulrich Speidel via Starlink a écrit :
> On 25/01/2024 1:37 am, Alexandre Petrescu via Starlink wrote:
>> Thanks for the tests!
>>
>> The dl/ul speeds 300/15 mbit/s are impressive.
> 
> "Speeds" (observed data rates) in terms of Starlink hardware are 
> actually fairly meaningless as they depend on:
> 
>   * Satellite(s) involved in the data transfer over the duration of the
>     measurement(s).
>   * Load on those satellites, which depends on the number of other
>     current users whose traffic goes via those birds, and what these
>     users are up to. Note this changes between handovers.
>   * RTT to other end of transfer path.
>   * Packet loss (including beyond Starlink's network)
> 
> Unless a Dishy is able to handle communication via multiple satellites 
> in parallel, I would expect the rates to be the same more or less 
> regardless of model used. In fact, I would expect a Dishy model that is 
> able to align itself to do marginally better over time.
> 
>>
>> At video pointer 5:53 the reported Ping ?/dl/ul 88/204/121 ms and Jitter
>> 9.2 ms seem interesting.
>>
>>     ==> I am not sure which of the two (ping or jitter) you name 
>> 'latency'?
> All of them I guess.
>>
>>     ==> I am not sure why the dl (download) ping ms is higher than the ul.
> Because that is where you have the longer queues.
>>
>>     ==> I don't know what is the first ('?') parameter reported as 88ms
>> for Ping?
> 
> I presume unloaded ping RTT. The second is ping RTT during the download 
> test (with inbound queues loaded), the last is ping RTT during the 
> upload test (with outbound queues loaded).
> 
> I'd also note here that these are values obtained from Kyiv, which isn't 
> a Starlink environment that is easy to assess. For one, we don't know 
> whether there are Starlink gateways in Ukraine, or if there are, where 
> they'd be.

One could find 'Kyiv' in the list shown by 
https://geoip.starlinkisp.net/feed.csv

(not sure whether that is a teleport or a point of presence without 
satcom access).

Alex

  We don't know where else there may be gateways - not
> every jurisdiction publishes this - or whether Starlink may even be 
> operating opportunistic fair weather optical gateways which they don't 
> have to disclose to anyone. Plus we don't know what may be carted into 
> the area or away from it via laser links to gateways much further away.
> 
>>
>> I wonder whether the DHCPv6-PD is still supported by REV4 and whether
>> the allocated prefix is still a non-/64 (i.e. a /56 delivered by
>> DHCPv6-PD reported earlier on this email list by Steven on Dec. 12, 2023)?
>>
>> Alex
>>
>> Le 23/01/2024 à 10:07, Oleg Kutkov via Starlink a écrit :
>> > I conducted the initial comparative tests of the new terminal in
>> > Ukraine. I guess it's not a really "legal" because the new terminal is
>> > not certified and not selling outside the US for the moment. But who
>> > cares.
>> >
>> > Here's a video: https://youtu.be/hWPMpJrjd1g 
>> <https://youtu.be/hWPMpJrjd1g>
>> >
>> > I will try to do more technical tests next week. There will be a new
>> > video.
>> >
>> _______________________________________________
>> Starlink mailing list
>> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink 
>> <https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink>
> 
> -- 
> ****************************************************************
> Dr. Ulrich Speidel
> 
> School of Computer Science
> 
> Room 303S.594 (City Campus)
> 
> The University of Auckland
> u.speidel@auckland.ac.nz  
> http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~ulrich/
> ****************************************************************
> 
> 
> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Starlink mailing list
> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink