From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca (tuna.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:3:216:3eff:fe7c:d1f3]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ADH-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 944C73B29E for ; Sat, 5 Mar 2022 22:01:31 -0500 (EST) Received: from localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 9DDD738C97; Sat, 5 Mar 2022 22:10:43 -0500 (EST) Received: from tuna.sandelman.ca ([127.0.0.1]) by localhost (localhost [127.0.0.1]) (amavisd-new, port 10024) with LMTP id N1AhIXjk9MaD; Sat, 5 Mar 2022 22:10:42 -0500 (EST) Received: from sandelman.ca (obiwan.sandelman.ca [IPv6:2607:f0b0:f:2::247]) by tuna.sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 0779A38C96; Sat, 5 Mar 2022 22:10:42 -0500 (EST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=sandelman.ca; s=mail; t=1646536242; bh=8+ERMnOMS0lWWwIwbaEq0WejfkRuUwtkYxi7XdZDD+8=; h=From:To:Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Date:From; b=LZr+q6s72oSmkx8w/2kJKDuZ6cal/dD3Q4o+9RCqraallcfM73XP8fjDltSOCwXgB w8SFF08TzyFpAvnVIDOeePZNhs/pZ1zlfepvXY5z3qfGgqvHNhip4iA39gwHYawWrs RKV7cv8kCMSHB5nDbEfWbh7aYGjoL3/nKg9AR/+/uPQGbxiNXWXcH7uV5oixsS2xfR UHoUjKSd4TlOyaoUOiD1jGf4dz2rl6gZXU6T+X1YgA7Oxm2PaKrgOxsGQA1MlNgRgC 9AYWRniEZH0XAiwaJxk/uzXfWeSYO96yXPi2mFA8H1uAXtLJpjHmCZHk6wrtdg/7GW SHL0iBm6MvU/g== Received: from localhost (localhost [IPv6:::1]) by sandelman.ca (Postfix) with ESMTP id 7C1607CD; Sat, 5 Mar 2022 22:01:28 -0500 (EST) From: Michael Richardson To: "David P. Reed" , starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net In-Reply-To: <1646527180.51036626@apps.rackspace.com> References: <1646527180.51036626@apps.rackspace.com> X-Mailer: MH-E 8.6+git; nmh 1.7+dev; GNU Emacs 26.1 X-Face: $\n1pF)h^`}$H>Hk{L"x@)JS7<%Az}5RyS@k9X%29-lHB$Ti.V>2bi.~ehC0; <'$9xN5Ub# z!G,p`nR&p7Fz@^UXIn156S8.~^@MJ*mMsD7=QFeq%AL4m Subject: Re: [Starlink] Starlink deplyment in Ukraine X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 06 Mar 2022 03:01:31 -0000 --=-=-= Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable David P. Reed wrote: > 1. I'm really curious how well Starlink's bent-pipe architecture > actually works in a context like Ukraine where fiber and copper > infrastructure are vulnerable and less redundant than in a place like > the UK. I'm not so worried about the dishy's working or being > targeted. They can be moved and disguised. What is not being discussed > here (or anywhere) is where the ground stations that the traffic must > *all* traverse are, and the fact that they are Single Points of > Failure, and must be nailed down in places which are close enough to > the dishy they serve, and also fiber-backhauled into the Internet. Th= is > is a serious technical issue that interests me, mostly because Starli= nk > doesn't publish its technical specs. Given the discussion abotu Tonga, I wondered this as well. Could one have grond stations that just acted as relays... more bent pipes essentially on the ground. Some kind of super-dual-dishy. As I write this, the snake version of the NASA comes to mind as a shape :-) > Now Poland and Moldova are potential sites that might cover part of > Ukraine, but certainly not that far into the country. Agreed. This is where the laser stuff would actually be super valuable. (Former co-chair of IETF ROLL WG. I think RFC6550 might do well in space, but I suspect an SDN approach using a PCE would be better) =2D- Michael Richardson . o O ( IPv6 I=C3=B8T consulti= ng ) Sandelman Software Works Inc, Ottawa and Worldwide --=-=-= Content-Type: application/pgp-signature; name="signature.asc" -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- iPMEAQEKAB0WIQSk7ZHEG9TCGBNASfm/sjw/rPYc8wUCYiQkCAAKCRC/sjw/rPYc 8y8PBgCXWmoWvD0wszHdBi5ORelZn3IbQI1AZAVpx3tAlavRxYy8FMpovOL0+Q7V gR6y4+Q90Gf1CfSNXS0I2IHT6JsnweNMk43cDJ38b5s9EZUoqTe+8tOS/yongvRx WPIzXLqOe9G+Vm4f7W5VVct9C8Orp5wA22rdiummD2y6gvTweiwTHDLag5TW7BYn +519MQI8Xb5yyBskBqoCcHoduV2azwOsD3xmi43TJAOUsIRxByE8BdOGW1e3Ju1v GHnL1ZM= =pE3n -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- --=-=-=--