From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.15.15]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C828A3B2A4 for ; Wed, 30 Aug 2023 15:43:11 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.de; s=s31663417; t=1693424589; x=1694029389; i=moeller0@gmx.de; bh=MyQtomhHONA7m5gsO1R5HeKMo193Xd0TJfLMjA1Ga0A=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To; b=OdwtfebxppOaFha7GMYDFIwntHO0S8ohOwBZx/29q91TP7i27bEOVvvcHkkECnnJ2NY+vYU akNS2Q8NyEXumJj4XQjwBQWmcREUqX2fvjVQILCR+kpSN/M85Dpr/GEtyY+BInwDTb9UcY7O5 5/IF59c3AbXXJMcAfU/Lfvpm5f/1rkDWozD3snO2/IdF+2jplz7BLsLv4SfE1v3MGE+qNKLOn 1rLBzV7B1vA27/EowM5DvR7vTUOUczaYmoOUQp6kOpnx7E7VwOGJfHDDo4LVLDrqh+qfAE6c5 IBsPaacSx6Dvn93XqU4NriQukdnNDAj/kydwBslMCCDz1CRwQcXQ== X-UI-Sender-Class: 724b4f7f-cbec-4199-ad4e-598c01a50d3a Received: from smtpclient.apple ([95.112.174.206]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx005 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MUosN-1qArfQ1ZK5-00QlkV; Wed, 30 Aug 2023 21:43:09 +0200 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3696.120.41.1.4\)) From: Sebastian Moeller In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2023 21:43:08 +0200 Cc: Dave Taht via Starlink Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: To: =?utf-8?Q?Dave_T=C3=A4ht?= X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3696.120.41.1.4) X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:NDriuufLPoARBTzzW4+qdlFvvGHwpD64cm9ebFMoVvmn+2cCW7w 68dOcNht1j6fC1jXCC2FlfkZKwLsU5PS+9CUSQUDQ0wWb4t76mOsNBsa2d4drbCGMcMlq0t h5F+wG270daKdX+6JIFKjis+rxjsjucUFapD04eBOCPYi3lZybNZ17LVa1HFgpgdxXdnPiU rG0m/yBsHhNnQs9DJ4hyg== X-Spam-Flag: NO UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:USs2Ys2Ilp4=;Jg0sdy/42/f1C6YiwY7Ho16bCjR OuMutfdEdXUI/Dhd0gogrPG7dc3+PAyNqS9Aoeq/RIYBLA1izM+VyklhpNH+TR5vEOaWLXoVx xYt52G6lRGNhd2TYcf1MblLvZj+Vi17AwrxHQ9hgvViNS8ssG8GEXgDrt5Y+CGQIMPCpUq3am onoD4dEQYWHXcEgiUSRBuYsblyU3hoCyST4ODvACZNs1xWrRI1Evc1TzOIVVCB4oS0SC4GI1O d1d+zE4N8kxSLiG+fYZaDYz+TyW8ugAzw14aC4k+ZMuoYSTevm+elr9LyrC16S/G8IKzq/dCj DWgFL61R2og18gj5dEnepY+nopQRlC3Cwo26g5xtHxQ2+nSDD2b6QRXQFMaOAwcL+ZzCND2Ms hIu8ykjOoSKsYbLyaRL1LU2y/w8Ic/5jnJ1REJlW7A/eurYjfy1tJj4rdOsHG6mNF+b0RE5w4 dz/E7usEa1QSPUPqpA6VbyH9hQWwUtEN2do3dqYWJ7ohd15cfGqQsv6Uvg1lHnfQQX7TxN16t RG8I2IS/MciRghSGX6M3hkfoM+gBIemiHSxgdpVTt4JJY3K7i5UdlDVWbzOhRzysnm4aWvpE1 BPGFcbZ317DZP2s81Mw5/d2+NRVp1RzRoI1oy5M8YbdMzgAmpBBu0kq8wHtyF1Rs/nQipC3i6 /Pb58hwwjdiJhq92pX/UtOz6CLTf0hkdRfd+9ICnjP+H5PctCJP/t2q2sbG9xHackSvbWoJcL We1gxiXQFfEPoEaezRIfHeOsWloS+J3ay8VFC+HHBD/OAdt4zwHAJOge7zrkLS2LJFrjDMwE0 EXd3bn0WJgUaUH1EHjAOWwNHlg46aYZ1MsgDCBlL22VcVAtXsZPnMK9BL7+KpadnvZPcveFFO whdqX2L/z2qh88vBQ5W8NrSgYKKi0xeg9YKART891cgkwyU53jNVotS6wfP20ZqMdrYKxfRMS 8ZR9YPxjjmqiSNvOrZ0M7mbZzYA= Subject: Re: [Starlink] a puzzling starlink uplink trace X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Aug 2023 19:43:12 -0000 Hi Dave, you probably know already, but mtr -ezb4 www.heise.de will report compliant MPLS segments: = My traceroute [v0.95] 123-1234567.local (192.168.42.229) -> www.heise.de (193.99.144.85) = = 2023-08-30T21:39:48+0200 Keys: Help Display mode Restart statistics Order of fields quit = = Packets Pings Host = = Loss% Snt Last Avg Best Wrst StDev 1. AS??? 192.168.42.1 (192.168.42.1) = = 0.0% 1067 0.9 0.6 0.5 9.1 0.4 2. AS6805 loopback1.0003.acln.06.ham.de.net.telefonica.de = (62.52.201.200) = 0.0% 1067 12.3 22.5 9.9 172.7 17.5 3. AS6805 bundle-ether10.0002.dbrx.06.ham.de.net.telefonica.de = (62.53.2.98) = 0.7% 1067 12.4 12.0 10.3 16.5 0.7 4. AS6805 ae7-0.0001.corx.06.ham.de.net.telefonica.de (62.53.15.0) = = 0.0% 1067 18.7 19.2 17.2 48.9 2.4 [MPLS: Lbl 16624 TC 0 S 1 TTL 1] 5. AS6805 ae6-0.0002.corx.02.fra.de.net.telefonica.de (62.53.0.49) = = 0.0% 1067 41.6 19.6 17.2 51.6 3.9 [MPLS: Lbl 16624 TC 0 S 1 TTL 1] 6. AS6805 bundle-ether2.0001.cord.01.off.de.net.telefonica.de = (62.53.0.199) = 0.0% 1067 19.0 19.3 17.7 87.1 2.2 [MPLS: Lbl 16624 TC 0 S 1 TTL 1] 7. AS6805 bundle-ether1.0002.corp.01.off.de.net.telefonica.de = (62.53.28.171) = 0.0% 1067 22.9 19.2 17.5 29.7 0.9 8. AS??? ipv4.de-cix.fra.de.as12306.plusline.net (80.81.192.132) = = 0.0% 1066 18.5 19.7 18.2 93.0 2.5 9. AS12306 82.98.102.71 (82.98.102.71) = = 0.0% 1066 19.6 19.4 17.7 69.5 1.7 [MPLS: Lbl 24002 TC 0 S 1 TTL 1] 10. AS12306 82.98.102.23 (82.98.102.23) = = 0.0% 1066 17.8 19.8 17.4 197.7 9.9 11. AS12306 212.19.61.13 (212.19.61.13) = = 0.0% 1066 19.8 19.6 17.5 155.7 6.1 12. AS12306 www.heise.de (193.99.144.85) = = 0.1% 1066 19.6 19.1 17.6 63.7 1.5 Not that these do not already stick out as hops at different locations = (here Hamburg (ham), Frankfurt (fra) and Offenbach)) all with more or = less identical distance-independent RTTs. Other than that quite intriguing puzzle, I wonder whether we could teach = flent to run a bidirectional traceroute/mtr as part of its = measurements..? Regards Sebastian > On Aug 30, 2023, at 20:07, Dave Taht via Starlink = wrote: >=20 > In the attached 5 minute plot from a few days ago (I can supply the > flent.gz files if anyone wants them), I see a puzzling spike at T+155s > to nearly 90ms of baseline latency, then down to 20ms. No degree of > orbital mechanics can apply to this change, even factoring in an over > the horizon connection, routing packets on the ground through LA to > seattle, and back, or using a couple ISLs, can make this add up for > me. A combination of all that, kind of does make sense. >=20 > The trace otherwise shows the sawtooth pattern of a single tcp flow , > a loss (sometimes catastrophic) at every downward bandwidth change. >=20 > An assumption I have long been making is the latency staircase effect > (see T+170) forward is achieving the best encoding rate at the > distance then seen, the distance growing and the encoding rate falling > in distinct steps, with a fixed amount of buffering, until finally > that sat starts falling out of range, and it choses another at T+240s. >=20 > But jeeze, a 70ms baseline latency swing? What gives? I imagine > somehow correlating this with a mpls enabled traceroute might begin to > make some sense of it, correlated by orbital positions.... >=20 >=20 > --=20 > Oct 30: = https://netdevconf.info/0x17/news/the-maestro-and-the-music-bof.html > Dave T=C3=A4ht CSO, LibreQos > = _______________________________________________ > Starlink mailing list > Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink