From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail.taht.net (mail.taht.net [176.58.107.8]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher AECDH-AES256-SHA (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 24F8A3CB35 for ; Wed, 30 Jun 2021 03:13:30 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple (c-73-241-93-6.hsd1.ca.comcast.net [73.241.93.6]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by mail.taht.net (Postfix) with ESMTPSA id 968FF220F0; Wed, 30 Jun 2021 07:13:28 +0000 (UTC) From: Dave Taht Message-Id: Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="Apple-Mail=_66B7EC55-8143-4FB8-A4DE-0407827D9836" Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.80.0.2.43\)) Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2021 00:13:26 -0700 In-Reply-To: Cc: David Lang , starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net To: Dave Taht References: <85542036-9ff8-75d2-438e-c86cc0c105d8@sokolov.eu.org> X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.80.0.2.43) Subject: [Starlink] routing capability in starlinks X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 30 Jun 2021 07:13:31 -0000 --Apple-Mail=_66B7EC55-8143-4FB8-A4DE-0407827D9836 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 since they are processing packets they must have some routing or packet = switching capability per sat, esp given the ultimate laser based = interconnect. I am wondering how much routing table space they might have designed in?=20= going village to village on the same sat would save a ton of backhaul = bandwidth and offer less latency for things like phone calls. The CGN = (dang it) looks doomed to backhaul somewhere, but perhaps the ipv6 = stuff? I imagine they do it at the l2 protocol and program the next hop(s) on = the ground, but we do live in an age where everything is centralized (for those that don=E2=80=99t know, I=E2=80=99ve been working on = distance-vector routing protocols for decades, most of my work on that = front for the last decade has been focused on making the babel routing = protocol scale better than bgp does for meshy links ) > On Jun 29, 2021, at 10:48 PM, Dave Taht wrote: >=20 > On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 10:24 PM David Lang > wrote: >>=20 >> I think that was 69k simultanious users >>=20 >> dishy production cost is currently down to ~$1k/unit (I've heard that = it was >> ~$3k/unit for the first ones) >=20 > Keep hoping they will add good, nay, great!! queue management. > Software costs nothing in qty. >=20 >> But the long term upside if they can pull it off is a license to = print money, >> I've seen speculation that it's on the order of 30B/year when fully = built >=20 > I think that's kind of doable. >=20 > It's too bad all those users are behind a CGN and cannot talk to each > other, routing calls at least from one village to another would stay > on the same sat. >=20 >>=20 >> David Lang >>=20 >> On Tue, 29 Jun 2021, Daniel AJ Sokolov wrote: >>=20 >>> Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2021 19:00:32 -0700 >>> From: Daniel AJ Sokolov >>> To: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net >>> Subject: [Starlink] 69,000 Users >>>=20 >>> Starlink currently has 69,000 User, according to what Elon Musk said >>> today at the Mobile World Congress in Barcelona. >>>=20 >>> In a year, he wants to have 500,000 users. >>>=20 >>> He expects having to invest 25 to 30 billion US-Dollars to fully = build >>> Starlink. >>>=20 >>> Each Dishy costs Starlink about double the current purchase price. >>> However, they want to reduce the production cost to "a few hundred >>> dollars" - which is why they are working on their own factory in = Texas. >>>=20 >>> FYI >>> Daniel >>>=20 >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Starlink mailing list >>> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net >>> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink >>>=20 >> _______________________________________________ >> Starlink mailing list >> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink >=20 >=20 >=20 > --=20 > Latest Podcast: > = https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:6791014284936785920/ = >=20 > Dave T=C3=A4ht CTO, TekLibre, LLC > _______________________________________________ > Starlink mailing list > Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink = --Apple-Mail=_66B7EC55-8143-4FB8-A4DE-0407827D9836 Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Content-Type: text/html; charset=utf-8 since= they are processing packets they must have some routing or packet = switching capability per sat, esp given the ultimate laser based = interconnect.

I am = wondering how much routing table space they might have designed = in? 

going = village to village on the same sat would save a ton of backhaul = bandwidth and offer less latency for things like phone calls. The CGN = (dang it) looks doomed to backhaul somewhere, but perhaps the ipv6 = stuff?

I imagine they do it = at the l2 protocol and program the next hop(s) on the ground, but we do = live in an age where everything is centralized

(for those that don=E2=80=99t know, I=E2=80=99ve = been working on distance-vector routing protocols for decades, most of = my work on that front for the last decade has been focused on making the = babel routing protocol scale better than bgp does for meshy links = )

On Jun 29, 2021, at 10:48 PM, Dave Taht <dave.taht@gmail.com>= wrote:

On Tue, Jun 29, 2021 at 10:24 PM David Lang <david@lang.hm> wrote:

I think that was 69k simultanious users

dishy production cost is currently down to ~$1k/unit (I've = heard that it was
~$3k/unit for the first ones)

Keep hoping they will add good, nay, great!! queue = management.
Software = costs nothing in qty.

But the long term upside if they can = pull it off is a license to print money,
I've seen = speculation that it's on the order of 30B/year when fully built

I think that's kind of doable.

It's too bad all those users are behind a CGN and cannot talk = to each
other, = routing calls at least from one village to another would stay
on the same sat.


David Lang

On Tue, 29 Jun 2021, = Daniel AJ Sokolov wrote:

Date: Tue, 29 Jun 2021 19:00:32 -0700
From: Daniel AJ Sokolov <daniel@sokolov.eu.org>
To: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
Subject: = [Starlink] 69,000 Users

Starlink currently = has 69,000 User, according to what Elon Musk said
today at = the Mobile World Congress in Barcelona.

In = a year, he wants to have 500,000 users.

He = expects having to invest 25 to 30 billion US-Dollars to fully build
Starlink.

Each Dishy costs = Starlink about double the current purchase price.
However, = they want to reduce the production cost to "a few hundred
dollars" - which is why they are working on their own factory = in Texas.

FYI
Daniel

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https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:6791014284= 936785920/

Dave T=C3=A4ht = CTO, TekLibre, LLC
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