From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mout.gmx.net (mout.gmx.net [212.227.15.18]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 339C13CB41; Sat, 25 Mar 2023 16:16:07 -0400 (EDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/simple; d=gmx.de; s=s31663417; t=1679775360; i=moeller0@gmx.de; bh=Y5MNrx0z2iVwkB3UvYgayT06N+aTh9+OEYUpxi4Ia30=; h=X-UI-Sender-Class:Subject:From:In-Reply-To:Date:Cc:References:To; b=D5TLxj7iQg/BSR2Zozo//ONjVxP2mC55LhgIVR8nscSvGa2ExBu2Oj/OM/HxYjuBb 0laa84wWixPoIZsiZM85uD+csBmsW8jRYJiDA++rGTQ7uJhlyAYu5rVPKowLCCIq53 V8F3363ig51ZEXJpj2ZmsiKKh+tJIwM3gKx1seQyauRyfHRI0Pg/IHpCYaRoB24HHP LgYIClUarMfaUSWjrBSGrVSLuxE3g0ROu32QPAUilS1n0HXr39HHn/OG+q6UYWqkOF wi9LoQi2DcVbvqown9YAaFGsFOVvAtlcmroa0MbF0JUw+cvR/nyYTGdNPOZ6Biup1D 2kvd2qYChGlpQ== X-UI-Sender-Class: 724b4f7f-cbec-4199-ad4e-598c01a50d3a Received: from smtpclient.apple ([95.116.183.31]) by mail.gmx.net (mrgmx005 [212.227.17.190]) with ESMTPSA (Nemesis) id 1MeCpR-1qDZNn2NHT-00bKd4; Sat, 25 Mar 2023 21:16:00 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 16.0 \(3696.120.41.1.2\)) From: Sebastian Moeller In-Reply-To: <60e70b637df76234639780ab08f25d82@rjmcmahon.com> Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2023 21:15:59 +0100 Cc: Rpm , dan , Frantisek Borsik , brandon@rd.bbc.co.uk, libreqos , Dave Taht via Starlink , bloat Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <1d6c10c9a692bb3f2869fb1b40fa449a@rjmcmahon.com> <005d1e7e3e1d19bce308436e46a3ec5e@rjmcmahon.com> <569691b3e7dfc57bbf98c4fc168fc6cf@rjmcmahon.com> <2885829.1679221616@dyas> <20230321001019.GA4531@sunf68.rd.bbc.co.uk> <4295238B-FA57-49B6-B57B-78FFB2603B90@gmx.de> <8301258b8fffa18bd14279bff043dd03@rjmcmahon.com> <43bcbc338aecb44a1bef49489ab6f9c8@rjmcmahon.com> <60e70b637df76234639780ab08f25d82@rjmcmahon.com> To: rjmcmahon X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3696.120.41.1.2) X-Provags-ID: V03:K1:RyHqMqdQ/l0buwrxlgw1j9mYrrYbyxms0oXFWYtrupWcO8p52Yw rDKh4DFZIK340NRODEwr9Fu6nbNRMHTfpdjta//xMjGCNt1SDqyNHIiZ/SUBLAlLuEzPDnJ 0LKYi2sqL5W0ogd/LL7J7Yfc+BqIMnFqO9CAStJG7AaLDfJcr3sqbF3SfGeKvUbruLUNxAZ ybSE7H3EISu1YRm7LKS/Q== X-Spam-Flag: NO UI-OutboundReport: notjunk:1;M01:P0:A6qR+FJjIL0=;84dqx1CgI56zWjtzIGM5IE2ucxL gKh5xBeCL4x5cvPC0ZdVLmHlFbGRj4AJLmRHEG5gWesoEWDwZOtHSQNkN2nBZmLQKuZfiaD0d 18ovkGZ20LhzFE2GAGXv37buGtk+bE/PYkn5uUdCAbKgbEngrk07xaaIirbuvN85Fdz/V6lBC oPy8cWU3kr93AaS9qzeZEcoy0Bl2GU2e+L0wknK7W3j+qgIKDblK2LhodBNDk6rT4/Zb++Wjy SiG7nPhBu8Uj1xDoJ0Vqrmy9UgKYvRNKI67GGZ7bixaLODkiL5VRMWlCP1nTNXI/2MXcmEAjf EvmjjKi9DrYw26ExgTad5EpKYb7b8qsdXzloQo//nVBJlPohHvPRW+DO7mhjHfz8MaxjCclxm 4y/6GGPEMEwe2lNGWUT+e7BoZfgxrlNwNX4vCAWYaWZkufC4f101zWCXTcb7EjcXTN7jAKvn6 VktAqSxjn2grH+8RG2l96gCDbW/BCV1FR2zVgB6e2MogN5gwqoX6T0htxAA8duOt2h8E7DS8s xm1y50Hzq9uhTMAO/EUfyAc60UVK0AxSUWWns9NvxKVAYSca9WpsnAG4nxPBAb0pQim0eIAXR 7pzhhpoX8aN0FGWW7Hs6brE1TXZqv5a9HBt+qfSLcvaUMgLibJKeqmEd8tblAlBOjRpwSKrt8 3pmYpbjcFSNktGSgQC2C6hWudyCVLzLrbj1Sre9f+H65COZVZGpmmmdGrhdpCwKdUkFRrs0mD V+0ZE55gvKhhU4s41Uf4JEowKVz/uefw/7bkl7yhekjurCCWSis2GJz8bV14IpKzqmwZA0tNO tpSkDxkoUyKJszbmmNvNBuBPbDQNH33Ka9XkSib5RMZRDzaVNPhV00MHPgJ125Ec+ylfjmN6d GANYIku6KF+3mY9yaJKMnRqdhP6kLToOar+kmHZZkse7UMg1fU3c1Txxm3GD10m4A2XJ92TyM bMwUsw== Subject: Re: [Starlink] [Bloat] On fiber as critical infrastructure w/Comcast chat X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 25 Mar 2023 20:16:07 -0000 Hi Bob, somewhat sad. Have you considered that your described requirements and = the use-case might be outside of the mass-market envelope for which the = big ISPs taylor/rig their processes? Maybe, not sure that is an option, = if you approach this as a "business"* asking for a fiber uplink for an = already "wired" 5 unit property you might get better service? You still = would need to do the in-house re-wiring, but you likely would avoid = scripted hot-lines that hang up when in the allotted time the agent sees = little chance of "closing" the call. All (big) ISPs I know treat hotline = as a cost factor and not as the first line of customer retention... I would also not be amazed if Boston had smaller ISPs that are willing = and able to listen to customers (but that might be a bit more expensive = than the big ISPs). That or try to get your foot into Comcast's PR department to sell them = on the "reference installation" for all Boston historic buildings, so = they can offset the custom tailoring effort with the expected good press = of doing the "right thing" publicly. Good luck Sebastian *) I understand you are not, but I assume the business units to have = more leeway to actually offer more bespoke solutions than the likely = cost-optimized to Mars and back residental customer unit. > On Mar 25, 2023, at 20:39, rjmcmahon via Bloat = wrote: >=20 > Hi All, >=20 > I've been trying to modernize a building in Boston where I'm an HOA = board member over the last 18 mos. I perceive the broadband network as a = critical infrastructure to our 5 unit building. >=20 > Unfortunately, Comcast staff doesn't seem to agree. The agent = basically closed the chat on me mid-stream (chat attached.) I've been at = this for about 18 mos now. >=20 > While I think bufferbloat is a big issue, the bigger issue is that our = last-mile providers must change their cultures to understand that life = support use cases that require proper pathways, conduits & cabling can = no longer be ignored. These buildings have coaxial thrown over the = exterior walls done in the 80s then drilling holes without consideration = of structures. This and the lack of environmental protections for our = HOA's critical infrastructure is disheartening. It's past time to remove = this shoddy work on our building and all buildings in Boston as well as = across the globe. >=20 > My hope was by now I'd have shown through actions what a historic = building in Boston looks like when we, as humans in our short lives, act = as both stewards of history and as responsible guardians to those that = share living spaces and neighborhoods today & tomorrow. Motivating = humans to better serve one another is hard. >=20 > Bob_______________________________________________ > Bloat mailing list > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/bloat