From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from bosmailout05.eigbox.net (bosmailout05.eigbox.net [66.96.187.5]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 (256/256 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 2FEB13B2A4 for ; Wed, 31 Aug 2022 13:52:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: from bosmailscan05.eigbox.net ([10.20.15.5]) by bosmailout05.eigbox.net with esmtp (Exim) id 1oTRsz-0007Pi-Pz for starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net; Wed, 31 Aug 2022 13:52:21 -0400 DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; q=dns/txt; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=alum.mit.edu; s=dkim; h=Sender:Content-Type:MIME-Version:Message-ID:Date: Subject:In-Reply-To:References:Cc:To:From:Reply-To:Content-Transfer-Encoding: Content-ID:Content-Description:Resent-Date:Resent-From:Resent-Sender: Resent-To:Resent-Cc:Resent-Message-ID:List-Id:List-Help:List-Unsubscribe: List-Subscribe:List-Post:List-Owner:List-Archive; bh=Adh7wTKMDfmVSH32BQCM9nAw9mgeIRg9JZs9dIzRiUA=; b=y48xAGVI6Rwd/p3JR53bG3tyWS 5ftqLXW4R237k4sUJZ/n9AmyhXgXYjrh4y6JAGI4nLB+3L20OzM5xEVvrmp5FytqeKDbhrJ29v+3S vPGt3wGT9f0wahuwoaWpPKd5wHMqsugLeSWTTRhDfGEQp18FEwsYP7/bC3ftBQt1gBXa0njNGgveI iJ5/S2eMAnhe1l11mMFcmpP7OO1lKJ7GOGV6jfQxFxCWM9n4fSiAcYrIZPKcNIXqYzGOkn9rbQHyb chCPW/lj+sr6PxQZRADmWf7HWNOme70LnZjPZauF7TarJ/7fUDxOzs/nKeRZ+GHdNds9eN5IGk55o QwekOewQ==; Received: from [10.115.3.32] (helo=bosimpout12) by bosmailscan05.eigbox.net with esmtp (Exim) id 1oTRsz-0000O8-9F for starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net; Wed, 31 Aug 2022 13:52:21 -0400 Received: from bosauthsmtp15.yourhostingaccount.com ([10.20.18.15]) by bosimpout12 with id EHsJ2800E0KWaAJ01HsMaW; Wed, 31 Aug 2022 13:52:21 -0400 X-Authority-Analysis: v=2.3 cv=d4VuNSrE c=1 sm=1 tr=0 a=6thTdk0GfRoQwv0zj4iWMg==:117 a=nIEF4cAZMyOU5h9mcfI6lg==:17 a=biHskzXt2R4A:10 a=6ulraYUaiNAA:10 a=r77TgQKjGQsHNAKrUKIA:9 a=kurRqvosAAAA:8 a=R-dRFNKZMAhgNrv_djMA:9 a=wPNLvfGTeEIA:10 a=SSmOFEACAAAA:8 a=OebgFGzXOqUIhy9t17AA:9 a=r0TtmVzrY84dHB6H:21 a=UiCQ7L4-1S4A:10 a=hTZeC7Yk6K0A:10 a=frz4AuCg-hUA:10 a=kbxRQ_lfPIoQnHsAj2-A:22 Received: from c-67-180-86-211.hsd1.ca.comcast.net ([67.180.86.211]:56572 helo=SRA6) by bosauthsmtp15.eigbox.net with esmtpa (Exim) id 1oTRsv-00009o-Rl; Wed, 31 Aug 2022 13:52:18 -0400 Reply-To: From: "Dick Roy" To: "'Mike Puchol'" Cc: References: <1661878433.14064713@apps.rackspace.com> <6p5n9262-3745-pq31-5636-1rnon987o255@ynat.uz> <20220830220710.GA2653@sunf10.rd.bbc.co.uk> <15982a40-2b34-7ed1-bfa3-bced03fc3839@auckland.ac.nz> <9CE05D69-FC37-4C97-9D8D-D46B2DF6DE16@gmx.de> <2321be3b-957f-2d1f-c335-119c8e76efe5@auckland.ac.nz> <8978587-42op-q175-2o41-qq9p4491459s@ynat.uz> In-Reply-To: Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2022 10:52:15 -0700 Organization: SRA Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="----=_NextPart_000_00B6_01D8BD27.BD0A9070" X-Mailer: Microsoft Office Outlook 11 Thread-Index: Adi9IFnDrmWJ5bFERPusG0GU7hEqmAAQZ6/g X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE X-EN-UserInfo: f809475445fb8041985048e338e1a001:931c98230c6409dcc37fa7e93b490c27 X-EN-AuthUser: dickroy@intellicommunications.com Sender: "Dick Roy" X-EN-OrigIP: 67.180.86.211 X-EN-OrigHost: c-67-180-86-211.hsd1.ca.comcast.net Subject: Re: [Starlink] Starlink "beam spread" X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 31 Aug 2022 17:52:22 -0000 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. ------=_NextPart_000_00B6_01D8BD27.BD0A9070 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable =20 =20 _____ =20 From: Starlink [mailto:starlink-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net] On Behalf = Of Mike Puchol via Starlink Sent: Wednesday, August 31, 2022 2:59 AM To: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net Subject: Re: [Starlink] Starlink "beam spread" =20 On this particular one, the gateway beams are extremely narrow, around = 1.5=BA to 2.5=BA. SpaceX is working on =93mega-gateways=94 where 32 antennas = will co-exist. They are also deploying a new gateway design with a larger antenna, and thus narrower beamwidth and more gain, allowing for a considerable reduction in TX power. [RR] there is a much better way to do this! I sure hope starlink is considering it. Large antennas with narrow beam widths are a = sledgehammer to kill a fly. :-) =20 Best, Mike On Aug 31, 2022, 09:33 +0200, David Lang via Starlink , wrote: On Wed, 31 Aug 2022, Ulrich Speidel via Starlink wrote: This combines with the uncomfortable truth that an RF "beam" from a satellite isn't as selective as a laser beam, so the options for frequency re-use from orbit aren't anywhere near as good as from a mobile base station across the road: Any beam pointed at you can be heard for many miles around and therefore no other user can re-use that frequency (with the same burst slot etc.). not quite, you are forgetting that the antennas on the ground are also steerable arrays and so they can focus their 'receiving beam' at different = satellites. This is less efficient than a transmitting beam as the satellites you = aren't 'pointed' at will increase your noise floor, but it does allow the same frequency to be used for multiple satellites into the same area at the = same time. David Lang _______________________________________________ Starlink mailing list Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink ------=_NextPart_000_00B6_01D8BD27.BD0A9070 Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable

 

 

From: = Starlink [mailto:starlink-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net] On Behalf Of Mike Puchol via Starlink
Sent: Wednesday, August = 31, 2022 2:59 AM
To: = starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
Subject: Re: [Starlink] = Starlink "beam spread"

 

On this particular one, the gateway beams are extremely narrow, = around 1.5=BA to 2.5=BA. SpaceX is working on “mega-gateways” where = 32 antennas will co-exist. They are also deploying a new gateway design with a larger = antenna, and thus narrower beamwidth and more gain, allowing for a considerable reduction in TX power.

[RR] there is a much better way to do this! I sure = hope starlink is considering it. Large antennas with narrow beam widths are a sledgehammer to kill a fly.

J

 

Best,

Mike

On Aug 31, 2022, 09:33 +0200, David Lang via Starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>, wrote:

On Wed, 31 Aug 2022, Ulrich Speidel via Starlink wrote:


This combines with the uncomfortable truth
that an RF "beam" from a satellite isn't as selective as a = laser beam,
so the options for frequency re-use from orbit aren't anywhere near = as
good as from a mobile base station across the road: Any beam pointed = at
you can be heard for many miles around and therefore no other user = can
re-use that frequency (with the same burst slot = etc.).


not quite, you are forgetting that the antennas on the ground are also steerable
arrays and so they can focus their 'receiving beam' at different = satellites.
This is less efficient than a transmitting beam as the satellites you = aren't
'pointed' at will increase your noise floor, but it does allow the = same
frequency to be used for multiple satellites into the same area at the = same
time.

David Lang
_______________________________________________
Starlink mailing list
Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net
https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink<= /p>

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