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nonmember-moderation; administrivia; implicit-dest; max-recipients; max-size; news-moderation; no-subject; digests; suspicious-header X-Mailman-Version: 3.3.10 Precedence: list Subject: [Starlink] Bufferbloat cure question List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." Archived-At: List-Archive: List-Help: List-Owner: List-Post: List-Subscribe: List-Unsubscribe: I have a question for the experts here. This is not necessarily limited to = Starlink, but at Starlink's latest bandwidth capabilites, pushing past 300M= bps, this becomes relevant to Starlink.=20 In my simple tests at https://www.waveform.com/tools/bufferbloat, using bot= h Starlink and a new 1Gbps symmetric fiber connection (we're keeping Starli= nk for backup), I see decent but not great bufferbloat and jitter values of= about 16-25ms by setting my router to a standard Adaptive QoS setting (an = Asus consumer-grade router that supports 1Gbps WAN connection, RT-AX86U-Pro= ). When I use CAKE at lower speeds, it impressively crushes the impact unde= r load down to about 0-1ms. But that only holds at lower speeds, meaning a = bad day for Starlink where it's not pushing 300Mbps or if I set my router t= o limit bandwidth to about 280Mbps. On fiber, I have to limit the 1Gbps con= nection to 280Mbps to run CAKE and eliminate the bufferbloat. At 300Mbps or higher, bufferbloat and jitter skyrocket to hundreds of ms, m= uch worse than not using CAKE at all. I can see one of the 4 router CPU cor= es spikes to 100% at those transfer rates whenever I don't limit bandwidth = to something below 280Mbps. My crude understanding is that CAKE can only ru= n on a single CPU core (can't be multithreaded to take advantage of the oth= er 3 cores) and becomes CPU bound at higher transfer rates. Then, when the = CPU is maxed, CAKE will do more harm than good, which is exactly why buffer= bloat actually increases with CAKE above 280Mbps. I understand that FQ-CoDe= l is similar. All those tests are on wired connections, so these are not Wi-Fi effects. Presumably, a faster CPU would increase the rate before CAKE becomes the bo= ttleneck. But to my surprise, I can't find anything on the Internet that ad= dresses solutions to bufferbloat at higher bandwidths or confirms that some= modern routers have fast enough CPU to run at the full bandwidth capabilit= y of their WAN port. I had been told that a simple Ubiquiti Gateway-Lite between the Internet an= d my wireless router could take on this role, that it had a sufficiently po= werful CPU to handle up to about 1Gbps (or very close to that), but in my t= esting, first, it doesn't appear to include CAKE, and turning on FQ-CoDel, = as its closest alternative, requires disabling its hardware acceleration, w= hich dramatically harms both throughput and latency under load. I'm willing to go up to something more expensive and powerful (like the Ubi= quiti UDR7, where I like Ubiquiti for the group management of all the netwo= rking hardware from one interface with our existing Ubiquiti Wi-Fi APs, but= that's not a requirement, and I don't think any of the Ubiquiti routers in= clude CAKE), but given how hard it is to find anything on the Internet abou= t this, it makes me suspicious that I'm chasing the wrong problem. My chief concern is keeping jitter to a level where it will not cause any i= ssues for VoIP or video calls. At 16-25ms, that's not bad, but it can lead = to some stuttering and glitching on calls, shifting QoS to prioritize voice= and video calls helps, but if I could just eliminate the bufferbloat, seem= s that would be a better solution. Questions: 1. If CAKE is not viable due to CPU constraints on most modern routers as t= heir WAN port transfer rate, then what is the recommended solution?=20 2. Are there any routers that can handle CAKE at 1Gbps or 2Gbps? 3. Is there a site that provides ratings for different routers at these hig= h bandwidths or lists MODERN 1Gbps+ routers that support CAKE up to their f= ull bandwidth capacity?=20 4. Or, at bandwidths above 300Mbps, are these 16-25ms increases considered = acceptable, meaning I'm chasing perfection when I should just be happy with= 16-25ms latency impact and jitter under load and accept that occasionally = any Internet connection will have some problems when the connection gets cr= owded?=20 How should I tackle finding a solution? And if I'm asking the wrong questio= ns, please feel free to mock my ignorance in your response. :-) Let my fool= ishness be used educate others (and myself).=20 Many thanks, Colin