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Wed, 3 Jul 2024 17:21:07 +0000 From: Larry Press To: Ulrich Speidel , "starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net" Thread-Topic: [Starlink] starlink at sea Thread-Index: AQHazMAv7aH5AB/7T0C0K8XmB30BGbHkW+oAgADjb/4= Date: Wed, 3 Jul 2024 17:21:07 +0000 Message-ID: References: <1de04eda-c341-4db9-a736-196765c77437@auckland.ac.nz> In-Reply-To: <1de04eda-c341-4db9-a736-196765c77437@auckland.ac.nz> Accept-Language: en-US Content-Language: en-US X-MS-Has-Attach: X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: msip_labels: x-ms-publictraffictype: Email x-ms-traffictypediagnostic: BYAPR03MB3863:EE_|MW4PR03MB6966:EE_ x-ms-office365-filtering-correlation-id: b1309ec6-3e9d-431c-db02-08dc9b848668 x-ms-exchange-senderadcheck: 1 x-ms-exchange-antispam-relay: 0 x-microsoft-antispam: BCL:0; ARA:13230040|366016|41320700013|1800799024|38070700018; x-microsoft-antispam-message-info: =?iso-8859-1?Q?5AquwjbXZpeVJCpcFK/3MvXDAQZDI7v03In1hxZ5vxo2RzmH024C/feRes?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?n1AzkTErV62PNQ4ij2DwT7v+0RvClyGsbcKcOL6NQdyGNuj55f0X3TQUTN?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?//rHBS8OWxLzQ0etuY1E7/i1Ll/wonzKNhhBnwfAm83u999KsX27QQNeId?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?vgxPrawMjvxE4gi6Nz9cLeYNzbhECbxjG/TgnV1BT17+4sCEv5qofy5LfY?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?FRW7nBJjMH/zgrMQZFY0EWB+Xn7rkpXOKDZHVT1X8IgKkAk6Z2HFkzCECl?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?Ui3qlRQYleewf5qJw85Qp7P7KuYkkKSS5+z9m1loDeXwU5CTJKUCOD+9Qs?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?UdVO8kKXNyISiRuScBowMCIcRIrk84nXuMMlT7E/l6FN8cQEKBUf0EMgtf?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?Yp8smaQnXu94DuFS4G/5dss6UcSOldb/0k8K3Qt/8QF+05AtobNhUwdO5+?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?TWpkg0qQDAqYM0M25oFWkSd2X3FvpIed26u1EEzD7IkFbdUtkocepsKUtT?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?iAbZysCc0skyAnEZpgF8h1u8klvS/YoRnqwjXpO/jMhbFDPGghYtwHn/Ov?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?4I4epG26QM9yXMsJY7JiTSWGts8OUmbuxAEg2NrbEvXKCmSnDi9EGG/pVa?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?bOPQTLRN4bIkVlKg8ip6ot3dNaPb8TAtay7wIo/rppL51vOG643jhCA3zw?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?LhqPgau64Jqf3kt8Nb3hc7vI0fDQabodK+2c+d7qFZnctwYXADkLdXgfvl?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?kLWA6Zf3zPks9xzsrpYtF24f0D45wOb3Uzac7DezS6gbBYr1JbHqsWeyhw?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?AEIm/0daSEDOsLiQcS5e7te1FYEtAOIGNcsqFDyMLXouW+oaTMOcDzg5I6?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?q+mROUqyfLy8Vvw/VJxcr53LrJMvi/3E4QsLqExIYaFP+CIQAwuW31n/SL?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?cWWHSIWOrtJdSyRaBtpgu+2mCBoDXJ+Zbga+HcTUjqZkcE45aQwsDo5AtN?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?7/znD7AWpCGf3vWdsYMcodad1xQtS0HFeyN8cvlH3HFQ+JPFT1gsg8Bv84?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?rse98Wwnk64gGKE0O/uug91rtEvofpVbYvDENpYyd61WaOtaJgjMIO0Zjp?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?zbrjruu8l33X3a5BnjgYGsH0p1chmTBZd/ggHwuJghKOKsYIt38LIdo5IB?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?yBPmsimdjDhmakhY9Xx9jJf0VPI7ewAhyc09U51k4MWqkZOXNn7jAqWwPi?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?0wWiKVTxPBozj5Yq8CL5NcGB520XQcCCjlNu1qCrrAsPpyUHm82U7R+NH6?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?akPr1FBY/9I54j54Pd7AHBcvi1RFmf2Em8j11lXRnZj3Vz1LzTGJupj5Cw?= =?iso-8859-1?Q?keO9cm2Q0bFS66UqsKWPgNQMijCVy10xhlTfUjGUlhiuJFmVnyna0=3D?= x-forefront-antispam-report: CIP:255.255.255.255; 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boundary="_000_BYAPR03MB386314DF5501F57E2941229AC2DD2BYAPR03MB3863namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: csudh.edu X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: BYAPR03MB3863.namprd03.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: b1309ec6-3e9d-431c-db02-08dc9b848668 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 03 Jul 2024 17:21:07.2522 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 1a66a727-7389-4727-a8cb-f249ac8e7ff8 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: m9h+eGU/uZJgXnUcf4lLVsO03PtQxaUwObAYFL+2cxu9xN4rBLosQTa7BJIuuo447mxUTXeiSqEcsuehm3WGgw== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: MW4PR03MB6966 X-Proofpoint-GUID: DbeU1-iE1OTDHK4pFKysRyCHGZtU00tM X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: DbeU1-iE1OTDHK4pFKysRyCHGZtU00tM X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=baseguard engine=ICAP:2.0.272,Aquarius:18.0.1039,Hydra:6.0.680,FMLib:17.12.28.16 definitions=2024-07-03_12,2024-07-03_01,2024-05-17_01 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_notspam policy=outbound score=0 mlxscore=0 mlxlogscore=999 suspectscore=0 bulkscore=0 clxscore=1011 lowpriorityscore=0 adultscore=0 priorityscore=1501 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 spamscore=0 impostorscore=0 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.19.0-2406140001 definitions=main-2407030129 Subject: Re: [Starlink] starlink at sea X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 Jul 2024 17:21:17 -0000 --_000_BYAPR03MB386314DF5501F57E2941229AC2DD2BYAPR03MB3863namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Starlink is now available on all Carnival Cruise ships and the CEO says it'= s "another revenue uplift opportunity and a real game-changer." https://cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/2024/06/carnivals-weinstein-star= link-is-a-game-changer/#google_vignette As ISLLs, satellites, and ground stations proliferate, performance will imp= rove on all cruise and other ships. When other providers come online it wil= l get even better. ________________________________ From: Ulrich Speidel Sent: Tuesday, July 2, 2024 8:40 PM To: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net Cc: Larry Press Subject: Re: [Starlink] starlink at sea Given where the author of the blog was, most of the latency would have been= from the space segment - the 20 ms are only realistic if the satellite tha= t Dishy talks to can downlink to a ground station within a few 100 km. If t= he laser ISLs are involved, the path is usually much longer (and the transf= er points into and out of the Internet proper aren't always the closest or = most obvious ground stations either. We see traceroutes from Tarawa pass th= rough Auckland, regardless of target, despite there being closer ground sta= tions in Australia, for example. It'd be also interesting to see where cruise ships have which experience. A= ntarctica does well because the ship and therefore user density is low, and= there is little competition for the ISLs. Similarly, ships in moderate lat= itudes below the mid-50's now typically see a lot of satellites that they c= an use, and as long as they don't all crowd in large numbers into a single = harbour, they should generally be fine. The crunch point will be when you g= et high concentrations of large ships in northern locations - Norway, Svalb= ard and Alaska / Inside Passage at this time of year come to mind. That's w= here low visible capacity meets high user density. I also wonder how much of a role demographics play. My only trip on a cruis= e ship to date is a story in its own right, but at the time I couldn't help= but notice that I was 30-40 years younger than the age average on board. S= o quite how many gamers / streamers there'd be among the digital migrants a= board would have been questionable. But then again, that was some time ago,= and I'm sure there'd be a few digital natives now. Certainly, there will b= e in future. So how will that impact on demand and the ability to accommoda= te the growth in demand? On 3/07/2024 8:40 am, Dave Taht via Starlink wrote: https://circleid.com/posts/20240501-starlink-service-is-great-on-some-cruis= e-ships -- https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7203400057172180992/ Donations Drive. Dave T=E4ht CSO, LibreQos _______________________________________________ Starlink mailing list Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink -- **************************************************************** Dr. Ulrich Speidel School of Computer Science Room 303S.594 (City Campus) The University of Auckland u.speidel@auckland.ac.nz http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~ulrich/ **************************************************************** --_000_BYAPR03MB386314DF5501F57E2941229AC2DD2BYAPR03MB3863namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="iso-8859-1" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Starlink is now available on all Carnival Cruise ships and the CEO says it'= s "another revenue uplift opportunity and a real game-changer."
https://cruiseindustrynews.com/cruise-news/2024/06/carnivals-we= instein-starlink-is-a-game-changer/#google_vignette

As ISLLs, satellites, and ground stations proliferate, performance will imp= rove on all cruise and other ships. When other providers come online it wil= l get even better.


From: Ulrich= Speidel <u.speidel@auckland.ac.nz>
Sent: Tuesday, July 2, 2024 8:40 PM
To: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net <starlink@lists.bufferblo= at.net>
Cc: Larry Press <lpress@csudh.edu>
Subject: Re: [Starlink] starlink at sea
 

Given where the author of the blog was, most of the latency would have b= een from the space segment - the 20 ms are only realistic if the satellite = that Dishy talks to can downlink to a ground station within a few 100 km. I= f the laser ISLs are involved, the path is usually much longer (and the transfer points into and out of the I= nternet proper aren't always the closest or most obvious ground stations ei= ther. We see traceroutes from Tarawa pass through Auckland, regardless of t= arget, despite there being closer ground stations in Australia, for example.

It'd be also interesting to see where cruise ships have which experience= . Antarctica does well because the ship and therefore user density is low, = and there is little competition for the ISLs. Similarly, ships in moderate = latitudes below the mid-50's now typically see a lot of satellites that they can use, and as long as they d= on't all crowd in large numbers into a single harbour, they should generall= y be fine. The crunch point will be when you get high concentrations of lar= ge ships in northern locations - Norway, Svalbard and Alaska / Inside Passage at this time of year come to = mind. That's where low visible capacity meets high user density.

I also wonder how much of a role demographics play. My only trip on a cr= uise ship to date is a story in its own right, but at the time I couldn't h= elp but notice that I was 30-40 years younger than the age average on board= . So quite how many gamers / streamers there'd be among the digital migrants aboard would have been questionable.= But then again, that was some time ago, and I'm sure there'd be a few digi= tal natives now. Certainly, there will be in future. So how will that impac= t on demand and the ability to accommodate the growth in demand?

On 3/07/2024 8:40 am, Dave Taht via Starlink wrote:


--
https:= //www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7203400057172180992/
Donations Drive.
Dave T=E4ht CSO, LibreQos

_______________________________________________=0A=
Starlink mailing list=0A=
Star=
link@lists.bufferbloat.net=0A=
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-- =0A=
****************************************************************=0A=
Dr. Ulrich Speidel=0A=
=0A=
School of Computer Science=0A=
=0A=
Room 303S.594 (City Campus)=0A=
=0A=
The University of Auckland=0A=
u.speidel@=
auckland.ac.nz =0A=
http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~ulrich/=0A=
****************************************************************=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
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