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boundary="_000_BYAPR03MB38634393D9683D03DD6565F0C2F0ABYAPR03MB3863namp_" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-OriginatorOrg: csudh.edu X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthAs: Internal X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-AuthSource: BYAPR03MB3863.namprd03.prod.outlook.com X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-Network-Message-Id: b3ab268d-1832-491a-f45f-08dbb4a4b93d X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-originalarrivaltime: 13 Sep 2023 21:59:37.8443 (UTC) X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-fromentityheader: Hosted X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-id: 1a66a727-7389-4727-a8cb-f249ac8e7ff8 X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-mailboxtype: HOSTED X-MS-Exchange-CrossTenant-userprincipalname: XTi0LntYBcl9iEOUlhNEVY6oX8+bG3b1AzwMRN9CNDk0HK6u2e9+jShBgegl22BpH1kbXfIWakmx08Il+nd/kQ== X-MS-Exchange-Transport-CrossTenantHeadersStamped: PH0PR03MB6432 X-Proofpoint-ORIG-GUID: eVpHxcJC5fI4CUv6bWdAcvRe5xBkII7n X-Proofpoint-GUID: eVpHxcJC5fI4CUv6bWdAcvRe5xBkII7n X-Proofpoint-Virus-Version: vendor=baseguard engine=ICAP:2.0.267,Aquarius:18.0.980,Hydra:6.0.601,FMLib:17.11.176.26 definitions=2023-09-13_16,2023-09-13_01,2023-05-22_02 X-Proofpoint-Spam-Details: rule=outbound_notspam policy=outbound score=0 adultscore=0 priorityscore=1501 mlxlogscore=999 impostorscore=0 malwarescore=0 phishscore=0 suspectscore=0 lowpriorityscore=0 mlxscore=0 bulkscore=0 spamscore=0 clxscore=1011 classifier=spam adjust=0 reason=mlx scancount=1 engine=8.19.0-2308100000 definitions=main-2309130181 Subject: Re: [Starlink] SpaceX no longer taking losses to produce Starlink satellite antennas, a key step to improving profitability X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 13 Sep 2023 21:59:47 -0000 --_000_BYAPR03MB38634393D9683D03DD6565F0C2F0ABYAPR03MB3863namp_ Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable It's a complex, dynamic pricing problem -- available capacity is constantly= changing, but consumers would not tolerate, say, service price changes eve= ry month. Maybe they reassess price when performance in an area falls below= or rises above thresholds. ________________________________ From: Starlink on behalf of Ulrich= Speidel via Starlink Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2023 2:36 PM To: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net Subject: Re: [Starlink] SpaceX no longer taking losses to produce Starlink = satellite antennas, a key step to improving profitability The differential pricing is a pretty obvious attempt to manage user density= in the cells as they add capacity in the sky. Growing pains. In NZ, they sold at NZ$199 at one point if you were "rural" and NZ$729 if y= ou were "urban", except that their definitions of "rural" included the buil= t-up CBD of a few cities with population into the 100's of thousands, and "= urban" included lifestyle block areas away from the big cities. A better de= finition would have been: * "urban" if truly urban and surrounded by sufficient geeks to drive de= nsity up (look at central Tokyo where user density seems to have gone throu= gh the roof!) * "urban" if in rural areas that attract a lot of lifestylers and in wh= ich no fibre is on offer * "rural" if in urban areas devoid of sufficient numbers of geeks * "rural" if truly out in the sticks But they keep changing that in quite a nimble fashion and rural and urban p= ricing seems to have started to converge somewhat. Starlink's hardware pricing is only one lever, subscription is another, and= that's reflected in their pricing where service is involved that goes beyo= nd the standard stationary dishy setup. In areas that have fibre, they're n= ot competitive - they'd need to be US$50 / month or less to even get a seri= ous foot in the door there. Everywhere else, they are selling well as long = as the locals can afford it. So quite how they will manage user density onc= e everyone's bought a cheap dishy will be interesting - can they grow capac= ity faster than user base? Quite what that means for rural fibre expansion = also remains to be seen. Where available, fibre offers vastly better uplink= rates, lower latency, and - at present - lower ongoing pricing. On 14/09/2023 5:52 am, Inemesit Affia via Starlink wrote: That's quite strange. They sell equipment at different prices everywhere. S= o what's this price? I assume $500 to $750 but could it be even cheaper? Amazon said thier target is $400 On Wed, Sep 13, 2023, 6:05 PM the keyboard of geoff goodfellow via Starlink= > wr= ote: * SpaceX is no longer absorbing the cost of the Starlink antennas that = it sells with its satellite internet service, a company executive said on W= ednesday. * =93We were subsidizing terminals but we=92ve been iterating on our te= rminal production so much that we=92re no longer subsidizing terminals, whi= ch is a good place to be,=94 Jonathan Hofeller, SpaceX vice president of St= arlink and commercial sales, said during a panel at the World Satellite Bus= iness Week conference. [...] https://www.cnbc.com/2023/09/13/spacex-no-longer-taking-losses-to-produce-s= tarlink-satellite-antennas.html -- Geoff.Goodfellow@iconia.com living as The Truth is True -- **************************************************************** Dr. Ulrich Speidel School of Computer Science Room 303S.594 (City Campus) The University of Auckland u.speidel@auckland.ac.nz http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~ulrich/ **************************************************************** --_000_BYAPR03MB38634393D9683D03DD6565F0C2F0ABYAPR03MB3863namp_ Content-Type: text/html; charset="Windows-1252" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
It's a complex, dynamic pricing problem -- available capacity is constantly= changing, but consumers would not tolerate, say, service price changes eve= ry month. Maybe they reassess price when performance in an area falls below= or rises above thresholds.
From: Starlink <sta= rlink-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net> on behalf of Ulrich Speidel via Sta= rlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>
Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2023 2:36 PM
To: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.ne= t>
Subject: Re: [Starlink] SpaceX no longer taking losses to produce St= arlink satellite antennas, a key step to improving profitability
 

The differential pricing is a pretty obvious attempt to manage user dens= ity in the cells as they add capacity in the sky. Growing pains.

In NZ, they sold at NZ$199 at one point if you were "rural" an= d NZ$729 if you were "urban", except that their definitions of &q= uot;rural" included the built-up CBD of a few cities with population i= nto the 100's of thousands, and "urban" included lifestyle block areas away from the big cities. A better definition would have been:

  • "urban" if truly urban and surrounded by sufficient geeks to = drive density up (look at central Tokyo where user density seems to have go= ne through the roof!)
  • "urban" if in rural areas that attract a lot of lifestyl= ers and in which no fibre is on offer
  • "rural" if in urban= areas devoid of sufficient numbers of geeks
  • "rural" if t= ruly out in the sticks 
But they keep changing that in quite a nim= ble fashion and rural and urban pricing seems to have started to converge s= omewhat.

Starlink's hardware pricing is only one le= ver, subscription is another, and that's reflected in their pricing where s= ervice is involved that goes beyond the standard stationary dishy setup. In= areas that have fibre, they're not competitive - they'd need to be US$50 / month or less to even get a seriou= s foot in the door there. Everywhere else, they are selling well as long as= the locals can afford it. So quite how they will manage user density once = everyone's bought a cheap dishy will be interesting - can they grow capacity faster than user base? Quite = what that means for rural fibre expansion also remains to be seen. Where av= ailable, fibre offers vastly better uplink rates, lower latency, and - at p= resent - lower ongoing pricing.

On 14/09/2023 5:52 am, Inemesit Affia via = Starlink wrote:
That's quite strange. They sell equipment at different pr= ices everywhere. So what's this price? I assume $500 to $750 but could it b= e even cheaper?

Amazon said thier target is $400

On Wed, Sep 13, 2023, 6:05 PM the k= eyboard of geoff goodfellow via Starlink <starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net>= ; wrote:
  • SpaceX is no longer absorbing the cost of the Starlink antennas that it= sells with its satellite internet service, a company executive said on Wed= nesday.
  • =93We were subsidizing terminals but we=92ve been iterating= on our terminal production so much that we=92re no longer subsidizing term= inals, which is a good place to be,=94 Jonathan Hofeller, SpaceX vice presi= dent of Starlink and commercial sales, said during a panel at the World Satellite Business Week conference.
[...]
https://www.cnbc.com/2023/0= 9/13/spacex-no-longer-taking-losses-to-produce-starlink-satellite-antennas.= html

--
= Geoff.Good= fellow@iconia.com
living as The= Truth is True

-- 
********************************=
********************************=0A=
Dr. Ulrich Speidel=0A=
=0A=
School of Computer Science=0A=
=0A=
Room 303S.594 (City Campus)=0A=
=0A=
The University of Auckland=0A=
u.speidel@=
auckland.ac.nz =0A=
http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~ulrich/=0A=
****************************************************************=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
=0A=
--_000_BYAPR03MB38634393D9683D03DD6565F0C2F0ABYAPR03MB3863namp_--