From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail.onholyground.com (mail.onholyground.com [204.130.133.20]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 883EE3CB37 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2021 21:41:57 -0400 (EDT) Received: from smtpclient.apple (castleinthewoods.onholyground.com [204.130.133.5]) (authenticated bits=0) by mail.onholyground.com (8.14.9/8.14.4) with ESMTP id 1A51fsUf030136 (version=TLSv1/SSLv3 cipher=DHE-RSA-AES256-GCM-SHA384 bits=256 verify=NO); Thu, 4 Nov 2021 20:41:54 -0500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Mime-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 14.0 \(3654.120.0.1.13\)) From: Darrell Budic In-Reply-To: Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2021 20:41:53 -0500 Cc: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Message-Id: References: <7907F9D1-9511-4254-BD8F-701888EB6778@onholyground.com> To: Dave Taht X-Mailer: Apple Mail (2.3654.120.0.1.13) X-Greylist: Sender succeeded SMTP AUTH, not delayed by milter-greylist-4.6.2 (mail.onholyground.com [204.130.133.20]); Thu, 04 Nov 2021 20:41:55 -0500 (CDT) X-Spam-Checked: This message probably not SPAM (-2.806) X-Spam-Tests: ALL_TRUSTED,BAYES_00,SO_PUB_URIBL_NS_40,TXREP X-Scanned-By: MIMEDefang 2.84 Subject: Re: [Starlink] Starlink tidbits from NANOG X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Fri, 05 Nov 2021 01:41:57 -0000 > On Nov 4, 2021, at 11:46 AM, Dave Taht wrote: >=20 >> - v6 is deliberately not fully functional, but they know some of use = are using it and it will eventually be fully activated. May be waiting = on the regional connectivity, so will be intersting to see if changes = for some areas and not others as they roll it out. >=20 > Deliberate... well, if you ship 10 year old openwrt software to users > (we'd made a big push for ipv6 there before ipv6 launch day in 2013), > and > don't keep up... I guess you could call that deliberate. I'm pretty > happy with openwrt 20.2.1. IMHO: ipv6 really requires a modern kernel > and tools, not less than 4 years old, to deploy well. Maybe there's a > worthwhile SDR stack, I don't know... >=20 Deliberately not enable radvd in this case, so hopefully easily solvable = once they have a v6 backbone they are happy with. >> - They hate Google's outsourced NOC as much as the rest of us >=20 > Do say more. :) I'm told google at least have a very nice set of tools > for looking at the characteristics of interchange traffic. If you=E2=80=99ve ever had to deal with them, it=E2=80=99s a lot of long = delays on tickets, no explanation for problems and fix acknowledgements = only if you=E2=80=99re lucky, and lots of =E2=80=9Cplease do the needful = and revert=E2=80=A6=E2=80=9D type non-answers. And they never give out = data on your traffic once it=E2=80=99s left your box/boundary, even = though you=E2=80=99re paying them for the traffic. One of the worst = I=E2=80=99ve ever delt with, but fortunately offset by all the smart = folk you never get to talk to that ensure most things work really well = most of the time. >> - New ground stations with more capacity are coming (and will be = upgrades). >=20 > Would so love universities to get in on some of those. I remember the = IMP. They are emphasizing public peering, so I=E2=80=99m hopefully they=E2=80=99= ll keep moving. Many of the university=E2=80=99s already peer at SIX and = a couple are at ChIX, so their connectivity will open up a bit. Speaking = of, I=E2=80=99ll give a 10G ChIX connection to any public educational = institution that wants one and can get to me, so send =E2=80=98em my way = if they=E2=80=99re in the midwest and interested! >=20 >> - new birds also have 2-3x more ku bandwidth than first gen >=20 > up and down? >=20 > My take on the up problem was that it was regulatory. ? >=20 It=E2=80=99s three beams =E2=80=9Cup/down=E2=80=9D from the Dishys (one = at a time in a TDM fashion, which we knew), and one locked on whatever = ground station it=E2=80=99s tracking at the moment. Sounded like more = capacity on all of them, unclear if it=E2=80=99s better antennas, more = power, better tracking, or all of the above. It did sound like the = ground stations will get bigger antennas, so that=E2=80=99s probably = part of the downlink improvements. >=20 > Just someone telling me under pain of death, "dave, you can't talk for > X months, but we're going to do cake/fq-codel/pie/something" would be > comforting. There's a whole internet elsewhere left to fix, starlink > getting it right and a little publicity around it would do wonders... > and certainly wifi is highest on my list. As it is, I got annoyed > enough last week to try and get the autorate sensing code to work well > on starlink. There's a prototype now that seems to be working well on > lte, see here: = https://forum.openwrt.org/t/cakes-autorate-ingress-testing-needed/108848/1= 86 >=20 > Testers wanted. I=E2=80=99ll get my cake install upgraded and test it out. To be honest, = I haven=E2=80=99t even been running it for a while, so they=E2=80=99ve = gotten better since you started talking to them even if it isn=E2=80=99t = great yet. > Fixing fixed wireless has been a pain point far, far, far greater > than the disappointment I felt at starlink so totally missing the > bufferbloat problem initially. It will take a decade to sort out 5g, > 4-6 months more for starlink oh! yes! yes! yes! >=20 > More news on that as it happens. >=20 >> - it=E2=80=99s encrypted up and down. I didn=E2=80=99t know that yet, = but I may have just missed it. >=20 > I did. But it's really hard to trust that black box and the world has > otherwise shifted to e2e encryption. My contact acknowledged that, but it=E2=80=99s nice to know it=E2=80=99s = probably better encrypted than the LTE modems we all use everyday = already. I imagine we=E2=80=99ll have to continue to depend on the = application layer for that sort of e2e encryption, with the advantage = that it won=E2=80=99t matter what our transport tech is then.