From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-io1-xd2e.google.com (mail-io1-xd2e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d2e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8C2F73B2A4; Sat, 7 Aug 2021 16:31:59 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-io1-xd2e.google.com with SMTP id l20so17500457iom.4; Sat, 07 Aug 2021 13:31:59 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Ifd+OZa3KfIq/1McadAYy9aTi8X4Yck3KD5xc32IPbA=; b=MRdSf5HoInCFNM9DibquIbUzKLwuPozX+FX1d+qjnvdxZl2i0h8wSotlLfXCEqycIM HWDbWwObHEDtMli4/jG+JX70XdXODtjdojFvJ/NC8dkE5Z5Fohg0Lrm7ZQqLIlqEPNPP 2Y1AegEyCJX4Ujqur7BVr83AMwf+2+z1vKuh3qt73W6VAHwex2bE//HkhU+GtzCDOUhG yBEHfjo01MrHL+cg4yTPkCJMTbiXk07zfiBmoTWYIeS6rIx0Gj0s1U93xA2kYKP6E29L 70B+1WraiTunztyZEjGE2/1Ax2wmk9ANwflNAtiJ78JWqbwHYbwMrcDzeMSvojX1P7t+ 0bPQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=Ifd+OZa3KfIq/1McadAYy9aTi8X4Yck3KD5xc32IPbA=; b=Mhs5wu0OiCebHtBzro7s/1eLUkb9wMe7GSMjt39ri6LizLxaJEFwngByOAYFPZfmFp yviMpWVI8MOeo9lmV5RmO9U4LuPOwYSGpAyDE95ClQ9TuQg2IPo15cPYZDvnAQmTFITX WVoS8OAcACNdbenI2BOSCAc198eqgoiY4bEckWbARBGalCB6ydTn1bUs2u0jYCHryPzd J83RQmrwXeRpZ2xsGu5ddkkWlJYSrp0mSPp6ZjhYNvQKyf9ae1/AW+FB+NZtOjza57R6 fnup2Q8Dxf/TWAt5SGngzzIFI1zhpiTH3Keze/gKIDErt4dA8GKOyO/sf8kl0+8h4Cgg VN5g== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM533JIFTUDl//IPT6kKB5r1dYOjSKFMSMkZrhmVQ3EkvqnIifGXPe +EQp0DxcZgAYZtccdJxLxVpVTKf9Ncgbjz4YHI0= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJweidzM9bF0+aN5HIG8x/cH5YnkNnwb9t5ui/F5Etg5BfWHvnd5e+ovNXRYwY/gcetEqVite5/+2bAxa8+SAic= X-Received: by 2002:a92:cd8a:: with SMTP id r10mr60736ilb.287.1628368318919; Sat, 07 Aug 2021 13:31:58 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <058681B8-89EB-42ED-8E82-4048BA3C9504@cable.comcast.com> <649DC4B024D74B8BA6926ABFCD52DC79@SRA6> In-Reply-To: <649DC4B024D74B8BA6926ABFCD52DC79@SRA6> From: Dave Taht Date: Sat, 7 Aug 2021 13:31:44 -0700 Message-ID: To: dickroy@alum.mit.edu Cc: "Livingood, Jason" , Simon Barber , starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net, bloat Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [Starlink] [Bloat] Of interest: Comcast AQM Paper X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 07 Aug 2021 20:31:59 -0000 On Sun, Aug 1, 2021 at 2:40 PM Dick Roy wrote: > > I assume by WiFi what is really meant is devices that have at least one W= iFi (layer 1/layer 2) interface. While there are queues in the MAC sublayer= , there is really no queue management functionality ... yet ... AFAIK. I kn= ow IEEE P802.11bd in conjunction w/ IEEE 1609 is working on implementing a = few rudimentary queue mgmt functions. Thx for the steer to the relevant stds orgs. I dread discovering what they are up to... However, there is plenty of queue management at the txop layer. The structure we put into the linux softmac layer is described in "ending the anomaly": The wifi management layer, however, is largely unmanaged, and in some dense circumstances wifi mgmt frames have been observed to be eating the most of the airtime available. > > That said, seems any AQM in such devices would more than likely be in lay= er 3 and above. > > RR > > -----Original Message----- > From: Starlink [mailto:starlink-bounces@lists.bufferbloat.net] On Behalf = Of Livingood, Jason > Sent: Sunday, August 1, 2021 1:20 PM > To: Simon Barber > Cc: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net; bloat > Subject: Re: [Starlink] [Bloat] Of interest: Comcast AQM Paper > > WiFi is a different challenge as you know. In this case it varies dependi= ng on the radio chipset vendor and is on my list of things to work on... > > JL > > =EF=BB=BFOn 7/31/21, 13:50, "Simon Barber" wrote: > > Awesome to hear that you are turning this on both upstream and downst= ream. Do you know if the wifi stacks in your home routers also have AQM? > > Simon > > > > On Jul 30, 2021, at 10:28 PM, Livingood, Jason via Bloat wrote: > > > > FYI that I will be presenting a lightning talk at the IRTF MAPRG me= eting today at 17:30 ET (https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://datatracker.ie= tf.org/meeting/111/materials/agenda-111-maprg__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!XLFMYPw-gnJgHz= z_1nF-N7dNeIeT4QD-5wQny8vdAfYE6bzHtVQD3-lqiQI9YwAncrZUew$ ). The talk links= to a just-published paper at https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://arxiv.org= /abs/2107.13968__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!XLFMYPw-gnJgHzz_1nF-N7dNeIeT4QD-5wQny8vdAfYE= 6bzHtVQD3-lqiQI9YwCePfNyng$ (click PDF link in upper right of page) that w= ill likely be of interest to these two lists. > > > > High-level: turning on AQM in the cable modem (upstream queue) took= working latency from around 250 ms to between 15-30 ms, which is actually = kind of cool. ;-) AQM is turned on in all of our CMTSes (downstream queue) = and in DOCSIS 3.1 modems (upstream queue). > > > > Have a nice weekend, > > Jason > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Bloat mailing list > > Bloat@lists.bufferbloat.net > > https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/= bloat__;!!CQl3mcHX2A!XLFMYPw-gnJgHzz_1nF-N7dNeIeT4QD-5wQny8vdAfYE6bzHtVQD3-= lqiQI9YwCIw2ZGww$ > > > _______________________________________________ > Starlink mailing list > Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink > > _______________________________________________ > Starlink mailing list > Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink -- Fixing Starlink's Latencies: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Dc9gLo6Xrwgw Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC