From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-wm1-x32f.google.com (mail-wm1-x32f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::32f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 3B03A3B29D for ; Sun, 16 Oct 2022 12:31:22 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-wm1-x32f.google.com with SMTP id e18so6970519wmq.3 for ; Sun, 16 Oct 2022 09:31:22 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=21YJeNw1jCCE/0sD9TJ/Uy7NZD00J4QeOgEyJPpQT9g=; b=cd70D38W4kNeqUG1ytIpbdihGUYCJpUYInsW83DEkKcx+wujaG9E9wzY/JU6acViTN qpP5yr25qYfM1xEqiVC37OU+2GiRNRQQlcBbUV1xDeCPyb9HBfkUa2ZqKQ2q/SzNxGwX 8ZyL1pzHD4x5rajvruF2cTG28gIfA129ISqtZugPIq2ubigezyQOHLf2L5qQszQ8FuXe 3Jm5oYJGj3JbajJZCpdqf3N51A0Kq8PJyIqnf//KTLeXLOLnMNZMs+sJQEt8oA1FaXHJ 8ztjaSYz7YlA28dC/KtAxKhwYepnZCnJ95dCViNKGj81sj2WViEZiTQHgBpc8gedK6iB OTNQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=21YJeNw1jCCE/0sD9TJ/Uy7NZD00J4QeOgEyJPpQT9g=; b=0YFO5KDjd+Wau6B+wBNjZMRIZGlZGln9jaliNGU009WoSqOMdcKpImJkaupE9Jy4Pt F6rm4E7dLIzdZlDi1WJ/fBL+DXQiX0YtuBnKLrcgukDAfwoM4MFGY0ifsy7nx2BKqMoB 4GWyxlYIWdqctzXjzu426vZCostp26E+q4VkpdpOs8QSs5WmRlIl0h7Fixtq7XGPa9ik QfQF1e9E3UE9YuLnFJ/EgdZRXO+LFROkxL7YYTJPkCKZmnUXc+CWezR5jg6yZKMTZkZS AirweF0ySyQ9BKamWvOhztjppXGl/sCx1VENMXQzNXm8x0WwOYB3Iav1e5rCYsC9GoEy G3Ww== X-Gm-Message-State: ACrzQf1UDRD3idQ5SzpUQbs2w9HLPhiS55PeiMn5cu47PZW35oQdX8lF 9VUiUXJQrEWnJBW/APtDlYgTwC2okSRRZAy2zO3r1LjJx5o= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMsMyM5vYGOtCWZgKk/e6jb+v/UbVsyie0VSC868v59S8eJvXUJ3X3QTkKXVGTNQsy5LT2x5EfppdcWfuHk+TqtcjyM= X-Received: by 2002:a05:600c:54f2:b0:3c6:bd60:5390 with SMTP id jb18-20020a05600c54f200b003c6bd605390mr16448857wmb.206.1665937881046; Sun, 16 Oct 2022 09:31:21 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <8735bqpq1r.wl-jch@irif.fr> <38522124-6d3b-4ac8-bb20-92bfa35dc9fe@Spark> <87tu46o8e3.wl-jch@irif.fr> <3ea89257-d5f8-4fa9-a90a-c73d49d2a9e2@Spark> <87r0zao0f0.wl-jch@irif.fr> <398208s8-6080-r8q7-s6rs-q9np11428n3o@ynat.uz> <4rn1o59p-36nq-87q9-3n78-828r0qppp221@ynat.uz> <17p02r7n-931q-np8o-n4r5-554psr2n8o79@ynat.uz> In-Reply-To: From: Dave Taht Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2022 09:31:07 -0700 Message-ID: To: Bruce Perens Cc: Sebastian Moeller , Larry Press via Starlink Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [Starlink] Starlink no longer available to the Ukrainian army? X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 16 Oct 2022 16:31:22 -0000 On Sun, Oct 16, 2022 at 1:45 AM Bruce Perens via Starlink wrote: > > > > On Sun, Oct 16, 2022 at 7:42 AM Sebastian Moeller via Starlink wrote: >> >> I wonder whether some form of communication would not be better handled = by a dedicated PR department: I have rather hated the return of over-processed communications in the last decade, and the lack of a place to yell back at the screen. I liked blogs and websites and media that had comments, and better, had authors that read the comments. I like a wacking good, long form, debate... which is why I miss netnews and email so much. If you think stuff run by PR departments is better, please read Ed Bernay's work, which has fallen out of copyright. > > > Unfortunately the biggest PR problem SpaceX/Starlink has is not one that = can be mediated by a PR department. Elon says stupid things. >"There is the far-right conspiracy theorism," I don't see "far-right" conspiracy theorism except from commenters. Got a concrete example? I am hopefully well known as a pretty rigorously "fair" person.[1] It comes from this: http://ronsravings.blogspot.com/2012/10/memorial-service-eulogy.html and to a huge extent my outlook on life and the American way, is actually reflected by the fq_codel and cake algorithms - " fq codel (now IETF standard RFC8290) is a uniquely =E2=80=9CAmerican=E2= =80=9D algorithm. It's *fair*. It gives the =E2=80=9Clittle guy=E2=80=9D - the lit= tle packet, the first packets in a new connection to anywhere, a little boost until the flow achieves parity with other flows from other sources, with minimal buffering. This means that all network traffic gets treated equally - faster. Isn=E2=80=99t that what you want in a network neutral framework? DNS, gaming traffic, voip, videoconferencing, and the first packets of any new flow, to anywhere, get a small boost. That=E2=80=99s it. Big flows - from anybody - from netflix to google to comcast - all achieve parity, with minimal delay and buffering, at a wide variety of real round trip times." - https://blog.cerowrt.org/post/net_neutrality_customers/ ... Elon has definitely shifted right in the past years moving from california to texas, and even if it's an uncalculated move (doubt it) - in order to sell "green technology" into the other half of the country, he needs to talk to things that those folk care about. If that means offending the green yuppie tesla base into buying more rivians, and convinces the red set in the center of the country to switch to electric trucks from ford... It's still a win, from his long-stated perspectives of converting the economy over to greener energies. "his belief that population collapse will end society if we don't start having more babies, " He's stopped far short of "banning abortion", for example, and the effects of population collapse can be demonstrated in aging populations in Japan, especially, who have also made a big investment into robotization. It does bug me that in repeated posts he doesn't show how, in America at least, immigration has countered the not-enough-for-replacement birth rate. I'm a big fan of immigration, always will be - (but I'd emigrate if only I could find a country willing to take me in!) "and his recent statement on how he believes the war in Ukraine should be ended. " Someone(s) need to propose answers on how wars can end. I already posted my interpretation of the Nicaraguan peace, as to what happened when both sides couldn't send in bullets anymore= . "A lot of this seems totally nuts to me and is not going to endear him to people. The impacts upon SpaceX and Tesla have been palpable." It is impossible to be endearing to all people. "The hell with it =E2=80=A6 even though Starlink is still losing money & ot= her companies are getting billions of taxpayer $, we=E2=80=99ll just keep fundi= ng Ukraine govt for free." https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/1581345747777179651 > > I spent some time with Steve Jobs in 12 years at Pixar. There were horror= stories about him, but he'd matured. He wasn't perfect, but a lot better. = The problem is that he was probably as old then as Elon is now. Did he thrust iphones into a war? witness the complete collapse of all other infrastructure technologies? Run the risk of nuclear war, with a communication tech that was hoped to bring the benefit of the internet to all? A really good question might be - what would steve jobs' have done, in this situation? Think different? Gandhi? Pol Pot? Winston Churchill? > > Thanks [1] for the record, I have published very little about my politics, and hope to not have to care more than I do. This piece is the closest I came to skewering every perspective there is: http://the-edge.blogspot.com/2003_06_15_the-edge_archive.html#1055821609248= 24821 and if someone could tell ME what my politics are after reading that, I'd probably find something to quibble with. > Bruce > _______________________________________________ > Starlink mailing list > Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink --=20 This song goes out to all the folk that thought Stadia would work: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/dtaht_the-mushroom-song-activity-69813666656= 07352320-FXtz Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC