From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-pj1-x1033.google.com (mail-pj1-x1033.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::1033]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id CEBBF3B2A4 for ; Mon, 15 Jan 2024 10:22:08 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-pj1-x1033.google.com with SMTP id 98e67ed59e1d1-28ddd807e4bso2107815a91.3 for ; Mon, 15 Jan 2024 07:22:08 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1705332127; x=1705936927; darn=lists.bufferbloat.net; h=content-transfer-encoding:to:subject:message-id:date:from :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=KAUQQ41tD/pZrL50Mz/OmEnUpFK8GfiLumcWjJA3Uk8=; b=hZ+jk6LjCizPoStE+ccb4oyHgh3TpW46iWG5mieTWR6JVuIjScTHN7emsHnRyyqwnh O6UgssrWEHWBBqg5unw5j/IcHOdV/PY/uBF4SRxfNDfpng5BhnMwuO/JZNV1waaEixjb K4XhWFAWhoMWRk1UCzjVQTE0rxeWASNf43nepr9OYqLBDwwr2E/m+t1H4vo0PT3eX5Nq H+lZo4fCuxz0dk+fXL7wIQkafxanyafeysWy+FkQdnlsXgm7hXVQgn5N45tXr5sESry+ p8gxNopSSzQwzsD5mNrBB9EaaWILV1wodwwJ2ueyhqwaSWep1lPR7/3+2yQOp40uJX8g 1gPg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1705332127; x=1705936927; h=content-transfer-encoding:to:subject:message-id:date:from :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=KAUQQ41tD/pZrL50Mz/OmEnUpFK8GfiLumcWjJA3Uk8=; b=Xud3NCbBOOnd8aQS1PSiITeiA1dBQYZzIvhd0XJNcx4xLm7VO3i0pbpMyJ9+cpBffa YaecmZ/JKoGBKHvTnzzQtGVYgpAivUYAMg38QYMZmj8mItmrMWQoJyVE89jI58tS/LH/ 4wtxB5Bns+zT33WPa+vXH30jZ6JOnaUIHTem+T/v/2D8DIIkBIp93MOGYYutXe1t07sz izWcqatvDUaZyrZ8PztJjMjkSbtPY8vdbHsDiuFCr2au5qi1L8DITvjjutR/XLose+Ud RTeB6HBs2ed6ydXCcWrFfP//HKJq+YEzh9I6/JokkPanMWMCuyB2ajLBXio5rWswTqvd TmyQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YxWPkCcUHYVUdFmauDY9JN+o0A3SopCPyXJfRtKAcPatwLH3QBE /LDRv/URdHWD8KS++zVvwec3nrB09jLLm7MewTSinIYHHw4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IF6oCay+s9KyWfD5u/2d5Ctyecc3SKZXaNm/ekuS6UZgeFJv5l2T8vZPNXRN8DtOldFBkB/LPLLi9m2N83WwiM= X-Received: by 2002:a17:90a:744f:b0:28e:20e7:c2a3 with SMTP id o15-20020a17090a744f00b0028e20e7c2a3mr1450787pjk.5.1705332127010; Mon, 15 Jan 2024 07:22:07 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Dave Taht Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2024 10:21:52 -0500 Message-ID: To: Dave Taht via Starlink Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [Starlink] musk on mean latency X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 15 Jan 2024 15:22:09 -0000 I would rather like starlink to get latency for voip/gaming/videoconferencing down to consistently (99.8%) below 40ms. from https://spaceflightnow.com/2024/01/13/live-coverage-spacex-to-launch-f= alcon-9-rocket-on-starlink-mission-from-cape-canaveral/=E2=80=A6 =E2=80=9CThe biggest, single goal for Starlink from a technical standpoint = is to get the mean latency below 20 milliseconds,=E2=80=9D Musk said. mean latency is a somewhat wrong goal. It misses the impact of slow start. I figure he is mostly describing the difficult layer 2 work it requires to accomplish that, everything from doing sat handoffs and rerouting stuff on the ground, to needing more ground stations, which is indeed a giant task. I keep hoping that in particular they get away from the "recalculate connectivity and bandwidth every 15 seconds", into something more responsive for normal traffic. DNS servers on the sats would help too! and does not fit into the concept of "mean latency" at all. ... and me, all I want to see is cake on the "glitchy", fq_codel on the wifi, and for them to find some way to leverage at least some of the techniques in LibreQos (like ebpf and cake) to somehow manage their downlinks better. It does look like they are now achieving sub 30ms latency to 1.1.1.1 in some places for dns. https://home.sjh.at/starlinksmokeping/?target=3DDNS.CloudflareDNS1 --=20 40 years of net history, a couple songs: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DD9RGX6QFm5E Dave T=C3=A4ht CSO, LibreQos