From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-wr1-x432.google.com (mail-wr1-x432.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::432]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 31DC13B29D; Wed, 26 Oct 2022 04:14:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-wr1-x432.google.com with SMTP id a14so22239819wru.5; Wed, 26 Oct 2022 01:14:54 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=reIgqfXAWcwZhwCV20IvN5Sl8nhAIvaXoMHlRR5Ri04=; b=UVR7k+GC9BkyfxX5KGL1g12dvjDhdEhJCcksUbqq/ngzvSx2TAmAlXo3KteYarMeCY WlTKUJwEKqN/OEesTolVhREi8zxJYuGeF8x2DZJvMHAY0+152fjmyYrPWTgl3xAQNWg1 tkFDB00S1lnaDyaO1RsHR/I4eoeJfLgw5unTOffINv40icoRrWQIpaRpzeNXADh+Gkl8 hgr8JhWGKf8o+wL7gWF8anc8E3Omms9Mm2g9H8RumgCfJuNiML9EqibwXI3CzWksfI+L f+JoPmHWwMIQi0naj0UDK3AAABYbbMHlsngOVDi6N96fus/gaLXZrNzR2xTbXZnfmY7i QXKg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=reIgqfXAWcwZhwCV20IvN5Sl8nhAIvaXoMHlRR5Ri04=; b=timIL2pAWG3VInQj/KHwzYubSNahtttFIdWggc/JKAfjRDMF1ppBFkuG83yHW1jMnD svl1/Ht6t/Hw/68NikRSC3aKJ4NfeUqDpATioYod3WtBvubSdD7OmsgyZylyzn17JRy4 AnPzSeivRQHSpIpyLWbfcTxQawzHXTHjzmBXRAiB/ltdKnMU2V+s299MznL11dAu/gLH AMzGYtkfl+5mC6eFIMnxvzpsMV5t2ZCSREwkM73+/udNJKKfDXsZLBC0Mfw2hNRVTx+W /fO9wltFIBxaExtE645WOA4LwaLwgUWdvC9bJopVgGOdUmrk0ZQSpNznssX4G8HCWMSS p9fg== X-Gm-Message-State: ACrzQf3Nea5fVdztUyQp2KmGn88KcqJn0pqGhtbBgWmlQ/ZhiLTTDgno wiKsJWb+0LJB3tst+Oxlzx2/FS4Z25ro1kQA/C4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMsMyM5bB1iWJ17dHwblca714yVR2RoZa39lfzgo1+PeEYvz60QV4QNhiC3M227r7wLWObZBbSyNqn4ubWYLB8CA/ek= X-Received: by 2002:adf:aa8c:0:b0:236:6e59:99ff with SMTP id h12-20020adfaa8c000000b002366e5999ffmr10685314wrc.688.1666772093060; Wed, 26 Oct 2022 01:14:53 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <339AB8BC-9628-40E2-9339-77FCFA74488D@gmx.de> In-Reply-To: From: Dave Taht Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2022 01:14:40 -0700 Message-ID: To: J Ignacio Alvarez-Hamelin Cc: Sebastian Moeller , Dave Taht via Starlink , tsvwg IETF list , IETF IPPM WG , Rpm , Glenn Fishbine , Measurement Analysis and Tools Working Group , discuss Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [Starlink] [mat-wg] [ippm] [Rpm] [M-Lab-Discuss] misery metrics & consequences X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 26 Oct 2022 08:14:54 -0000 To add some context to this enormous cross post of mine, to try and get folk here to think further out of the box, the FCC is due to announce how "consumer broadband labels" are supposed to work on Nov 15th. Nobody knows what they are going to announce. Their first attempt was laughable, the laughs in this attempt (which is admittedly much better), are subtler. https://www.benton.org/blog/consumer-driven-broadband-label-design I liked how they leveraged waveform's categories in this one. I (cynically) loved how the delay and loss both grew in this example, where loss should increase with less delay in most circumstances. Perhaps consumers can be trained to look for high loss and low delay, but I doubt it. --=20 This song goes out to all the folk that thought Stadia would work: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/dtaht_the-mushroom-song-activity-69813666656= 07352320-FXtz Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC