From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-wr1-x42e.google.com (mail-wr1-x42e.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::42e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D53443B29D for ; Tue, 2 May 2023 22:46:01 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-wr1-x42e.google.com with SMTP id ffacd0b85a97d-2fc3f1d6f8cso2780585f8f.3 for ; Tue, 02 May 2023 19:46:01 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20221208; t=1683081960; x=1685673960; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=+30NehtJAudQpLE08LHeqQGTs7kAuncfDUs+0cxeh+E=; b=m7BXy3MGl6eAVgUHkQLYn7YNUW37SfXM0PiEGoR8juMFJGdpstpRXLosl+sV5ubx+N cQ5MliaPXml6u2vcIcwDZ9xWhJuLKX+WlPqMzWjPdIQZvj/molIp65GQWDfZUpCtFwHx drnjo9oIPBhubulQhIIi/GsFMyVtdUiBNWiBQjsuFMOdz+W5C3ho/1vYq2A2YAw+4dy9 1svTTYQPbgJDkGMqXYYiwSpWR9y7HRsqj7xicBqSRchvnyufkQvqiUeRhpfDZTlu1YdB 5Bnodho4u490NA2fGpbeJ5/JWLIV4tZP9JwrsSSwha/3pI9M7RMXeKiuB/X+iaCsjqYo MLSA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20221208; t=1683081960; x=1685673960; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=+30NehtJAudQpLE08LHeqQGTs7kAuncfDUs+0cxeh+E=; b=Xb9AG9aa3zUxhNBJ4+yZ1kaRsULdAP7+lJJhpqD3+Y1yPyHPRbg/OKcu4EmyIrQMi0 Zwy+T9OETiGPgmIC8Lt9vBnADH87KprRBp0HJ89CkljBVeOwM2y+kYzE8uF3pFH8QhhL tCTnm/vPKtsRsD69cqplV75brInj5nFvSEVXN+NhkGn83hIdvE1iai75M0MSEpA4ZABa 58F5I7SMSh3VhoxCcnaPNAOzSkD9QVl1n2eJ+wsEPWzThebE6y2U8qWaAAkrFhT7p4hH c49mHLRD0NEUlzGvdChOUA2MUUnqO0crbCFTEDtDlSI5kHw8g9FCVnRD+FevOVo9lNKw pF1g== X-Gm-Message-State: AC+VfDzgAO8yEAI6wHqHxn5z6zDR9k1iwhC3l3cmS4W5HTjZAFFvF7/w nYHq+E0LPg66OQ4kyu0L3SRWODxHkIFiC4s5BZ8IshydhHY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ACHHUZ5ewNYO2p3DK5slHlU9CY/FzlMbsNr6tzOno1eTji1r1pwaFb4LrT/PgoSct0nV1qDHUFe3Hrx8HtwKnq4JKoE= X-Received: by 2002:a5d:4d87:0:b0:306:2d27:2ac8 with SMTP id b7-20020a5d4d87000000b003062d272ac8mr5211114wru.61.1683081960203; Tue, 02 May 2023 19:46:00 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: In-Reply-To: From: Dave Taht Date: Tue, 2 May 2023 19:45:48 -0700 Message-ID: To: "Luis A. Cornejo" Cc: Dave Taht via Starlink Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [Starlink] a bit more starship news X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 03 May 2023 02:46:02 -0000 On Tue, May 2, 2023 at 7:42=E2=80=AFPM Luis A. Cornejo wrote: > > I think they are overpriced for what they deliver, at least in my part of= the world (north of Houston.) I dropped them last month once the extra $10= made it go to $120, they charge $90 in other places in the US. I guess the= MBAs are doing "market segmentation," in other words, just charging what t= he market can bear, well given the state of the economy and the costs of go= ods, they pushed me out of that market. > > I switched to Verizon LTE and it's been really great 50/5 ish for $50. A = pretty good price for the service, Starlink is not 140% better, in fact it'= s worse on average, and did not get better for the year that I had it... we= ll actually it got progressively worse on average. Have you tried "cake-autorate" for your LTE yet? > > Now if they ever offer a reasonable plan for a reasonable price, I'll be = all over it, I like redundancy. A 50/5 for about $50/mo would probably brin= g me back, or even a smaller bandwidth for less money would probably bite a= nd I really want them to succeed. > > In the case of the WISPs, I can definitely believe the churn. WISPs that = run libreqos are more than likely very well run networks, I bet those who l= eave quickly realize how good they have had it. Of course StarLink can prob= ably mirror (for all practical purposes) a well run WISP, if they would onl= y listen/hire you for a little while and fix their bufferbloat! > > Speaking of WISPs, I thought I was going to get NextLink service at my pl= ace, but it turns out the system isn't quite here yet. I got excited since = I've read that they were deploying Tarana gear, and was looking forward to = testing that out, I've only seen very little with regards to the Tarana gea= r in a real world environment. I live among the tall pines of east Texas an= d getting line of sight requires obnoxiously large towers. Anybody else has= any information about the Tarana systems in the real world and not just a = PtP quick test? This was pretty interesting though as someone who appreciat= es redundant/fault tolerant systems: > > https://www.taranawireless.com/ngfwa-technology-that-keeps-customers-conn= ected/ I am very interested in NLOS wireless services such as what tarana promises. I am trying to get data from this facebook group over here, about it: https://www.facebook.com/groups/taranawireless/posts/1395880697842422/ > > -Luis > > On Sun, Apr 30, 2023 at 7:48=E2=80=AFAM Dave Taht via Starlink wrote: >> >> Aside from using triggering words, like "shrapnel", rather than >> debris, this is a pretty good, and profoundly negative summary of the >> Starship launch. https://youtu.be/ErDuVomNd9M >> >> Nit: I get bugged by folk like this raising local environmental >> concerns, as if you make the half an hour long drive to the launch >> site, there are plenty of wetlands to spare. Obliterating 1000 >> diameter meters of it, turning it into a concrete strewn wasteland, >> (and not coated with hypergolic poisons) for a launch site, seems >> trivial compared to oh, paving over manhattan, or what it took to >> build out towns like brownsville in the first place, and reminds me of >> the enormous fight to save the snail darter.[1] >> >> This also, was a fair minded summary of the negatives of where things >> stand: https://thenext30trips.com/p/scrappy-special-edition and what >> seems to me to be a great suggestion in locating the launch site *just >> offshore*, in the comments. >> >> Anyway, over here was a summary of what actually happened, according >> to Musk. The pad damage was not what caused the shutdown of 3 engines, >> and requalifying the ATS is what will take the most time. Still >> projecting 4-5 flights this year. >> >> https://twitter.com/JackKuhr/status/1652466221390913536 >> >> I note that my principal interest, at least, in the short term, was in >> thinking about how the Starship development timeline affects the >> starlink rollout. The "v2" satellites already constructed are >> effectively already obsolete, and their technologies being shrunk down >> into the v2 minis and successors, and the network behaviors themselves >> continually optimized. Right now I think it will be 2+ years before >> the first meaningful launch of the larger starlink satellites on >> Starship, and at the same time the flight rate of the falcons keeps >> getting better and better. I would kind of expect the "v3 mini" to >> have roughly the same throughput as the v2s at an ongoing half the >> size. >> >> Starlink is now well over a billion dollar a year revenue business, >> which is insanely better than what iridium achieved before entering >> bankruptcy (Iridium was under 70k users as best as I recall around >> then). Whatever spacex and starlink are spending on R&D makes me >> shudder. I am finding it odd that they have stopped publishing user >> growth numbers - small personal data point: in working with libreqos >> users, I am hearing about a 40% rate of folk that switched from WISP >> to starlink and back - so customer retention might be a problem as >> soon as someone finds a better service elsewhere. Another number I am >> trying to track is the useful life of the v1s - projected to last 5 >> years. There are 70+% of the first launch still operational. ( >> https://twitter.com/VirtuallyNathan is an ongoing sump of info) >> >> [1] https://twitter.com/JackKuhr/status/1652466221390913536 >> >> -- >> AMA March 31: https://www.broadband.io/c/broadband-grant-events/dave-tah= t >> Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC >> _______________________________________________ >> Starlink mailing list >> Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net >> https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink --=20 Podcast: https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:7058793910227= 111937/ Dave T=C3=A4ht CSO, LibreQos