From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-wr1-x42f.google.com (mail-wr1-x42f.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::42f]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 092903B29D for ; Sat, 22 Oct 2022 18:18:29 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-wr1-x42f.google.com with SMTP id bk15so10031661wrb.13 for ; Sat, 22 Oct 2022 15:18:28 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=klGCeVMfEGU6y0IBPo8OEcjU7NiE660a5wLDru81MkA=; b=geDmeR3uKOUvYw8Qxk782dT7byTRJPH1ro0IDaVK77soYGF9If2Y6K9ICopm4TeqtJ bVixBN+AUqJ7NQuabe+b71cMXETcDrcskRzL7C002pO2RqE/YmpRrEfDH+ph/SeSDOt3 uFSShK4zLxfK7Dq1mlCPnIodwP9az76aI7bBIqK08eHK8tUE/qrGzJpRB6hOSbWEey5Q yT09mf99MHTxtMxiApmu4z2h73syGZ3+nlKLKsHuKljo56UhJeBdLP6lcm4Fr5WVztir ItCve0gOtcCgwjrHWYDVVKLlBfOpmXbploqxSFWIUCsz2y6RNxkQYlULZ9h9hhUCz68I bjsw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=klGCeVMfEGU6y0IBPo8OEcjU7NiE660a5wLDru81MkA=; b=6s6cbgTxRn8ETCih9agK6H+tEIANRIAyJ8Q+kGnGdwHzH74/AAdD382dQSV5LvM23C /w88hZWPC5MGhsdcv67+VKCDIIdYkSiT8ZyP2Lqvfx0LZdJCcAna0THOBgSoiqrQw3o8 Wls5JBwmP59Mnv2HqXofc9nRZYjWEk8cUi7C7mExLM/6uW04acI+PrKcSDyTGhPkKoyA cj5PfJbXwCYl+0M4SDZRGBXBXc1y3kh+WrWdUxqGyVx8OdDlVbRgCrtNqwg7nrenbiPv 6/G1l2ZJLOS2n3HuxEhdPxXfLmxWGPAzVNb0ZuQzzh695qffAabkOa5xBsen86cUdkci +6eQ== X-Gm-Message-State: ACrzQf1UpaNJaSUZBXcnZ3gvFEuRJi3XnruVqYwXfVsL5IUnE3lYbbIV nFpHYorwqAbi9fov7g+riB3eecONpk0kR309zto= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AMsMyM5Nj6YprqtFUfMmeMwpHzRM3xyHM/HDJmGJWFGhDZr8ud8jpOvm7tmSyBkWxNRxscar68G8GxodLbMG5eQVTNM= X-Received: by 2002:adf:f242:0:b0:236:68ef:e76e with SMTP id b2-20020adff242000000b0023668efe76emr628660wrp.482.1666477107839; Sat, 22 Oct 2022 15:18:27 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <3d243599-8153-4244-07f4-f0b0fc3cc762@indexexchange.com> In-Reply-To: <3d243599-8153-4244-07f4-f0b0fc3cc762@indexexchange.com> From: Dave Taht Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2022 15:18:15 -0700 Message-ID: To: Dave Collier-Brown Cc: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [Starlink] misery metrics & consequences X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sat, 22 Oct 2022 22:18:29 -0000 In case I missed posting it, the direct yourube link is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3DK1jasTyGLr8 On Sat, Oct 22, 2022 at 2:00 PM Dave Collier-Brown via Starlink wrote: > > I love it: older programs at work always reported number of timeouts vs > load. I figured I'd rather have response time vs load, but I now see > why we report timeouts: they accurately track the number of miserable > customers (;-)) > > --dave > > (I know some of the original authors: they're no dummies) > > On 10/21/22 17:04, Dave Taht via Starlink wrote: > > One of the best talks I've ever seen on how to measure customer > > satisfaction properly just went up after the P99 Conference. > > > > It's called Misery Metrics. > > > > After going through a deep dive as to why and how we think and act on > > percentiles, bins, and other statistical methods as to how we use the > > web and internet are *so wrong* (well worth watching and thinking > > about if you are relying on or creating network metrics today), it > > then points to the real metrics that matter to users and the ultimate > > success of an internet business: Timeouts, retries, misses, failed > > queries, angry phone calls, abandoned shopping carts and loss of > > engagement. > > > > https://www.p99conf.io/session/misery-metrics-consequences/ > > > > The ending advice was - don't aim to make a specific percentile > > acceptable, aim for an acceptable % of misery. > > > > I enjoyed the p99 conference more than any conference I've attended in = years. > > > -- > David Collier-Brown, | Always do right. This will gratify > System Programmer and Author | some people and astonish the rest > dave.collier-brown@indexexchange.com | -- Mark Twain > > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE AND DISCLAIMER : This telecommunication, including= any and all attachments, contains confidential information intended only f= or the person(s) to whom it is addressed. Any dissemination, distribution, = copying or disclosure is strictly prohibited and is not a waiver of confide= ntiality. If you have received this telecommunication in error, please noti= fy the sender immediately by return electronic mail and delete the message = from your inbox and deleted items folders. This telecommunication does not = constitute an express or implied agreement to conduct transactions by elect= ronic means, nor does it constitute a contract offer, a contract amendment = or an acceptance of a contract offer. Contract terms contained in this tele= communication are subject to legal review and the completion of formal docu= mentation and are not binding until same is confirmed in writing and has be= en signed by an authorized signatory. > _______________________________________________ > Starlink mailing list > Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink --=20 This song goes out to all the folk that thought Stadia would work: https://www.linkedin.com/posts/dtaht_the-mushroom-song-activity-69813666656= 07352320-FXtz Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC