From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-io1-xd31.google.com (mail-io1-xd31.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d31]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id C77913CB37 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2021 13:12:02 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-io1-xd31.google.com with SMTP id e144so7742974iof.3 for ; Thu, 04 Nov 2021 10:12:02 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=iLv67iUJfWOuCpT5kVXooCMxzxSAwxsQQvyxMFl5Wto=; b=BLKSqNheVyOWflDYRGvl9JzrR1u9aWBomum/0HLUJj3dnUHv0wXuStjS+nrSiRDBgq WC40A2WMrEUuCaI3n2N6Sp4NOGWw+79zXOEZCJS0fBqpjNVb+AwII4rzDXB0l6bY95mV xMXo3wwUCrafoQTkQs72iTocgV+2Dr6gQrcpLla6py8gRIA+uEq9JXIAPt/3pSxGFoq+ 4kw1jBziHPQqMQDE6zyeAbcbpYVK6/SCRRTVztWdUfsM6UcfVnn2fDdy92inaINIPqoa zGGX05njkOBEPPfkHRQ0sP18apmwI9tYbnbEb4X20B8ipNodYbXajO+eGgHsM5VuCo/h fHWg== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=iLv67iUJfWOuCpT5kVXooCMxzxSAwxsQQvyxMFl5Wto=; b=8CxvveXq27TndoPgQlJVz0IlpxZ6sXVlCLJq4IvJTwcUzmS/1l+o61v/htFVhrfkEi QPG/ZNnwN36NH9MH85eVxzqLqOoAXBcQu5R8osZmvx0qTWrgjRcHj8i1IfRZJT85o5c6 iR+NtUCsWa/OZgW8hMm4NmRPU5cHOJH9l2C5N6UeNVtA5rEXcx4bnaV3da0cj1TuyAgE 3aCNInxoMLR5I/FhOD+UVXOEyDWWn2RHlzNvaw2PBOw8MbJcMditCvmHwMC63f/jFUia uBmDRzk13Emy2r5MnqPK064I/nX2JvRG9KZE33AcIwX6OvXZrbcu/SSZlibGOXcezpHI vPXQ== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530A9pQtC1Q+4GZ9V3AsQgbTcOZ2LM3xmZwSO0lMSWhFv65EafN0 lD8+NtYo7ixruRWvVI0neTbgzQt9ZrHvGdPmtd8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJxQ8q58agDEVBqtULcx41PXHsvt5Ff+0BXBDkRTtGYpsooXentAY1U5pfkQQi+AJvep9xDUVNd8Gf1LGOnoLeI= X-Received: by 2002:a5d:928c:: with SMTP id s12mr24021420iom.163.1636045921961; Thu, 04 Nov 2021 10:12:01 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <7907F9D1-9511-4254-BD8F-701888EB6778@onholyground.com> In-Reply-To: From: Dave Taht Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2021 10:11:49 -0700 Message-ID: To: Darrell Budic Cc: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [Starlink] Starlink tidbits from NANOG X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2021 17:12:02 -0000 On Thu, Nov 4, 2021 at 9:46 AM Dave Taht wrote: > > I have an ipv4/23 lying around since the 90s. I don't want to sell it, > but my co-owner and I would really like a dishy and a static IPv4/IPv6 > address... and service for life... and whatever else we could > negotiate. :) Perhaps 2 zeroth addresses in exchange, also. Getting 0 back is order millions more real ipv4s for the world. code's in linux and bsd now. https://tools.ietf.org/id/draft-schoen-intarea-lowest-address-00.txt (there's a preso nov 9th in intarea on this) > On Thu, Nov 4, 2021 at 8:26 AM Darrell Budic wro= te: > > > > I was at NANOG in Minneapolis, and got a chance to ask a couple questio= n of a Starlink Network Engineer who=E2=80=99s attending. I was already tal= king to him about Starlink=E2=80=99s network efforts (see below) but it was= nice to meet in person. Don=E2=80=99t quote me on any of this, but here=E2= =80=99s a few tidbits this list may appreciate: > > > > - Starlink is expanding their own network operations, and is connecting= to more IXPs. They were already on SIX in Seattle, have connected to DECIX= NY, and are in the process of connecting to ChIX in Chicago. As I run ChIX= , I had a good excuse to talk to them about other things. :) IXPs and their= own networks are in the works for Europe and other areas as well. > > It was my dream they would realize the huge number of small isps that > would like to peer with starlink and leverage those. I'd like to > restore > the original, routable internet back out to the edges where it > belongs. But that's me. The whole "Terminal" language bothers me, when > there's > so much more that could be created locally along the edge if only > stuff could move there. Email back to the edge, videoconfernening > services across villiages.... > > > - They have been obtaining more v4 addresses, but I don=E2=80=99t know = if they have enough to not do CGNAT. I don't think they do yet, but it seem= s like it may be a long term target. > > I keep hoping for IETF action politically on opening up 0/8 and 240/4. > There are of course a vast swath of military/8 assignments... I've > lost track did the post office ever sell any off? There's space left > in 44/8 too if they are willing to talk to ardc but that would have to > go to an open bid. > > > - v6 is deliberately not fully functional, but they know some of use ar= e using it and it will eventually be fully activated. May be waiting on the= regional connectivity, so will be intersting to see if changes for some ar= eas and not others as they roll it out. > > Deliberate... well, if you ship 10 year old openwrt software to users > (we'd made a big push for ipv6 there before ipv6 launch day in 2013), > and > don't keep up... I guess you could call that deliberate. I'm pretty > happy with openwrt 20.2.1. IMHO: ipv6 really requires a modern kernel > and tools, not less than 4 years old, to deploy well. Maybe there's a > worthwhile SDR stack, I don't know... > > Lately it seems like ipv6 things have been moving backwards with flow > offloads in certain chipsets being very limited or very buggy with > ipv6. Offloads in general have been cropping up as an increasing > problem - lot's of enthusiasm for putting in RED into nvidia's cards > apparently. > > > - They hate Google's outsourced NOC as much as the rest of us > > Do say more. :) I'm told google at least have a very nice set of tools > for looking at the characteristics of interchange traffic. > > > - New ground stations with more capacity are coming (and will be upgrad= es). > > Would so love universities to get in on some of those. I remember the IMP= . > > > They are using waves back to regional DCs now, but will be moving to da= rk fiber over the next year or two > > "waves"? > > > - the new satellites have more than 2 lasers, and there is enough capac= ity on them to do routing. no details on how or what protocols, alas > > Still on a custom mac, though, I suppose. Thx for all the teasers, > this is the most info I've seen in months. Way better than hitting > reload on reddit. :P > > > - new birds also have 2-3x more ku bandwidth than first gen > > up and down? > > My take on the up problem was that it was regulatory. ? > > (and they really need ack-filtering) > > > - new dishes are in the works, v4 coming with lower power use, more cap= acity, not round any more > > - larger dishes coming for commercial apps > > > - as we know, they aren=E2=80=99t doing any AQM yet, but it sounds like= it may be in the works and we may see it in new code in 4-6 months. Not my= guys department, so no more details. > > fq is a better start. > > Just someone telling me under pain of death, "dave, you can't talk for > X months, but we're going to do cake/fq-codel/pie/something" would be > comforting. There's a whole internet elsewhere left to fix, starlink > getting it right and a little publicity around it would do wonders... > and certainly wifi is highest on my list. As it is, I got annoyed > enough last week to try and get the autorate sensing code to work well > on starlink. There's a prototype now that seems to be working well on > lte, see here: https://forum.openwrt.org/t/cakes-autorate-ingress-testing= -needed/108848/186 > > Testers wanted. > > Fixing fixed wireless has been a pain point far, far, far greater > than the disappointment I felt at starlink so totally missing the > bufferbloat problem initially. It will take a decade to sort out 5g, > 4-6 months more for starlink oh! yes! yes! yes! > > More news on that as it happens. > > > - it=E2=80=99s encrypted up and down. I didn=E2=80=99t know that yet, b= ut I may have just missed it. > > I did. But it's really hard to trust that black box and the world has > otherwise shifted to e2e encryption. > > > > > -Darrell > > _______________________________________________ > > Starlink mailing list > > Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink > > > > -- > I tried to build a better future, a few times: > https://wayforward.archive.org/?site=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.icei.org > > Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC --=20 I tried to build a better future, a few times: https://wayforward.archive.org/?site=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.icei.org Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC