From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-io1-xd2a.google.com (mail-io1-xd2a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d2a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8AE473B2A4 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 2021 11:56:23 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-io1-xd2a.google.com with SMTP id f10so10739207iok.6 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 2021 08:56:23 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-transfer-encoding; bh=r6eW3rMRhMRp2TyrOwXcFfPE+OywLO2ZvaXQFU/3ijA=; b=m4kd+IamuoDO8zvsBdmtS3VRQYy6IgtWU0TCyCnRzxrII6bfTiGw6FoGi4ewEPPdC9 rdVo/W/DzOxusXbUePbEpTm5AnW7QluQ52tQhneJRj8HKf5Uote0Kdbq3YWO/iKhNPHz 0o5mnz3PRawKy4Fyz79sU2ckAYzy8Y+fDZ3IyTYsORY3nN27LIlJiXtuaepHIz/3vdE8 kzyyhVC1L1rTI8hC8t2vt68AaUwtF3n54I0tlhju1KER+mLJwu/yA70ggU44+d/E52E/ NR+uLIScF5Ri3xiGh3R+1/RgaaI7NDceoNNA/Lhj6PlczemMAHTPmdyq87rWc4aajoZb /maQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=r6eW3rMRhMRp2TyrOwXcFfPE+OywLO2ZvaXQFU/3ijA=; b=gz9CYgndy/Tg/DX0BSXbNpn4z0eCptX8XSpInleUIjNdfSF7K7qudCEtaqsFv/rhl9 uE92XVafJ2iLmHqufiJovDuNWUJufiiI7m58pgoIixydw9X5XGYE0VyrPK9F0l4/RGcn Nb/DwSwi6MtY4PEznk3CpYNjfsVYlwC/l60mnN0BaVRlMeVKwcCjBSGcI2u6rrlTi3jL NJ9J+drbuv8aQqmbYPShS4dZ+dEmSDP/pHxR/bw3BR4NcAeG9YcGMdOxXGRHMeC9KWHl UanvmRZfZv//bhLGKUrSjYSJGxjkW+YifCMcuXKJnUDxeNJWDiF3vJzCc82JxILSmvll Uh8A== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM530o7q+CzWKKyVezfV0kOjbyKMO8HWw/GX9dOXXwyyLS4yjQEjvl gsV5R40bd2+ZOXhx1r6wQAtwDtJu5DgLDQs5uDs= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJz0+hG9cf/OhCoIJYWxtA1ncH75BPv7sJXKquaTWFrT8zny0uLLw/HtryLSuslrx0HULwLTBQUr/2ZxLKxBM6g= X-Received: by 2002:a02:b19b:: with SMTP id t27mr13398183jah.29.1624290982293; Mon, 21 Jun 2021 08:56:22 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20160.1624287984@localhost> In-Reply-To: From: Dave Taht Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2021 08:56:10 -0700 Message-ID: To: Michael Richardson , starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [Starlink] on using and debugging lossless congestion control (RFC3168 ECN) X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2021 15:56:23 -0000 On Mon, Jun 21, 2021 at 8:47 AM Dave Taht wrote: > > On Mon, Jun 21, 2021 at 8:06 AM Michael Richardson wro= te: > > > > Dave Taht wrote: > > > It came up recently that a lot of folk don't like the idea of dro= pping > > > packets as a congestion > > > control mechanism. Like loss or not... the fundamental paper on t= his > > > subject is Van Jacobson and Mike Karels: > > > > > "On congestion avoidance and control" > > > > > http://web.stanford.edu/class/cs244/papers/CongestionControl.pdf > > > > I saved this post a long time ago. > > http://www.sandelman.ca/mcr/humour/vanj-enet-posting.txt >From that piece: "funding agents looking for high speed, next-generation networks may forget that research to make slow things go fast sometimes makes fast things go faster". Recently I dusted off fq_codel_fast in light of the cache misses finally showing up in a 100gbit dual bonded scenario over here: https://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/linux/kernel/git/netdev/net-next.git/commit/= ?id=3D848ca9182a7d25bb54955c3aab9a3a2742bf9678 asked the author to give it a try. > That was a *great* piece of history thx. And he referenced greg > chesson's work on XTP, > ( https://grainger.illinois.edu/alumni/distinguished/9560 ) > > Greg was an early consultant to the bufferbloat project... > he sadly passed before we ever had a chance to jam together. > > https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3D9795462 > > > There is another one about how he crashed Interop, which I don't know w= here I > > put. > > More folk should have seen van's codel preso at ietf 84. It was the > very very early days of webrtc. > > https://archive.org/details/video1_20191129 > > > > -- > > ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh net= works [ > > ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | IoT archit= ect [ > > ] mcr@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on rai= ls [ > > > > > > > > > -- > Latest Podcast: > https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:6791014284936785920/ > > Dave T=C3=A4ht CTO, TekLibre, LLC -- Latest Podcast: https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:6791014284936785920/ Dave T=C3=A4ht CTO, TekLibre, LLC