From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-oo1-xc2e.google.com (mail-oo1-xc2e.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::c2e]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id BDB6F3B29D; Sat, 16 Dec 2023 20:55:14 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-oo1-xc2e.google.com with SMTP id 006d021491bc7-591cd78299fso181436eaf.1; Sat, 16 Dec 2023 17:55:14 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1702778113; x=1703382913; darn=lists.bufferbloat.net; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date :message-id:reply-to; bh=CVNfclwvcQ2N7mzCBH1aTLfDr+oEgnFohw8C/QV4xG0=; b=h60UuJrP9VzokRK7j94/TxGDVL7faTAIdH5+EVo9zP5z+v1w2Jemt01f6SKGOX+24m lXmdGdZEgPfPsT7I7PKgp7/Hv2ioDCRhDQ+sIPuYuRCO7vYH8Sf51KWMv5fgFqNg0wa+ kxds7wmiBffbkioVD9myc02Y34OSQ5QR3CoCzy1Mv/pGAyP8iZcqoJO3fnHEh+JWLZYq BlLOXN1dWYwgUsgYNjHYC+Am0VWHrSo+J0tunEMsjU0UWQaTqiX03Q8IjtNLCTkVdT+r NWgt1GWgqHr1HjddgKJQaF664MYz+G263XKQWAznU/qDUO+YtJAMhJdm7xK3xI/L801z G3iw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1702778113; x=1703382913; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :in-reply-to:references:mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc :subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=CVNfclwvcQ2N7mzCBH1aTLfDr+oEgnFohw8C/QV4xG0=; b=klmqa+g2TXkWoiLE4qBNrj7BF8flj+u5AX8X6oB1AdrPS9Io/q+ie7hT/mA75GYeGj p6GrJZNZXH17+tcd7FQ/mvTXfO7vrMG0vFwOXt65aGGDhCxKdz+JiD5WjzFq9kb1Mmqz 6gDVyiYnoT/GBY5k48QmpDfGD/+mJImHNncjf+6682s36euURnk4Eo65C4ZBb0qwSfnN +3tPcTgnQUyoLDaGpvfdD45aMdFM6HuG6BQeKHC7xFHlYUZHsoq7HofxODL7xvxvOm9s WSjuD6vScb2hkF5H+H/WYgP3ynnMja3EjwqRpPc2APuvBPsYn0miVnBX2X+T8V6AAz05 rb1g== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0Yxc8B/YzNY9wHkIEjczBX9yabMftJAbD6knig76RF87E4+4NcnI biJZUPl+cc7rn/sMiutGahp89bktpKYQKm3QeBp+jFSgGCY= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IHUG0JIwnFR/v8FqY+ix1QnkkGkU8dmNQWpg7UrXyoQqqCsiH+TaC+umazDhwf63I9xbb2wIM5h7faxy+aK6q0= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6358:919d:b0:172:a707:746 with SMTP id j29-20020a056358919d00b00172a7070746mr5008931rwa.12.1702778113215; Sat, 16 Dec 2023 17:55:13 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <55037f9a-bc2c-4bbb-a4bb-47ad30f16190@rjmcmahon.com> In-Reply-To: From: Dave Taht Date: Sat, 16 Dec 2023 17:54:57 -0800 Message-ID: To: =?UTF-8?Q?Network_Neutrality_is_back=21_Let=C2=B4s_make_the_technical_asp?= =?UTF-8?Q?ects_heard_this_time=21?= Cc: Nathan Simington , Dave Taht via Starlink Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [Starlink] other fcc services at sea X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 17 Dec 2023 01:55:14 -0000 On Thu, Dec 14, 2023 at 10:51=E2=80=AFAM Nathan Simington via Nnagain wrote: > If we can provide good service to people without the huge lift of a unive= rsal fiber to the home build, then the United States is headed in the wrong= direction and will be wasting a lot of public money. I tend to think that a modern phone is enough for most people. It would be nice if buying more bandwidth on demand was easier. /me hides >And, unlike StarLink, we still won't have connected Dave's boat :-) A couple notes. I enjoy being colorful but boat life is not for everyone, and in particular I am finding coping with small finicky things increasingly difficult as I get older. My boat has been for sale for a while. I would, absolutely, get another in a warmer, cheaper location, smaller, and wider, with a bit more automation and a motor easier to work on, perhaps electric! The new regen electric motors are quite the thing and a heck of an improvement over finicky diesels. You only need enough stored power to get you a few hundred feet if the winds are willing and you do not need to get anywhere fast. Two $800 lithium batteries can get a 35 foot boat like mine about 20 miles. My plan a few years back was to essentially commute between SF and Half Moon Bay with enough solar and battery on board to run a phone and laptop. Starlink is a really bad choice for most small boating applications. The power requirements (50+ watts) dwarf that of all the other gear on the boat, combined, and the need for high speed internet at sea rather limited for a sailboat. Many marinas, including this one, provide free WiFi, and there is actually comcast out to any boat that wants it, although it doesn't work very well. Richer marinas than mine actually have FTTB (fiber to the boat). Starlink is a pretty good choice at more remote marinas than mine to service the whole marina and increasingly indispensable for bigger boats on longer trips, but for boating recreation I think most users prefer to be offline and at most, stream music. I have an enormous flac collection and a kindle, and otherwise do not much want from the internet at sea anything more than weather, email and the occasional call. I got a starlink because my godson (and first mate) was annoyed about his, and planning a trip where it might have been nice to have it thoroughly de-bufferbloated. Fun story here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3Dc9gLo6Xrwgw Otherwise I would just have stuck with a lte/wifi box up on the mast. It has been fun watching the service evolve, but it is really small potatoes cmpared to trying to improve 5g and wifi as I otherwise do. Far more amazing to me, is watching VHF radio get so rapidly displaced by coastal cellular services over the last decade. You can get astoundingly good bandwidth on a phone 5+ miles out at sea along much of the California coastline, at a cost of 1Watt charged up at shore or a half hours charging off of the motor. Yo can do even better than that with a box up the mast. While some VHF is still used if you know someone else is out there, you tend to try and call them, first. There was a study recently about how at sea cellular access transformed the fishing market for a small country. There are many other simple, robust services "out there" that few know about, "AIS" for example, identifies boats to each other, and how the EPIRB rescue system works is pretty amazing. How these work are covered by succinct and adequate FCC regulations. Recent example: https://docs.fcc.gov/public/attachments/DOC-372824A1.pdf Busy ports can still get pretty hairy but it is nothing like air traffic control, and it is really rare that any boat ends up as a supertanker hood ornament.