From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-ej1-x62d.google.com (mail-ej1-x62d.google.com [IPv6:2a00:1450:4864:20::62d]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id 8BE283B29D for ; Sun, 27 Feb 2022 06:23:08 -0500 (EST) Received: by mail-ej1-x62d.google.com with SMTP id gb39so19511445ejc.1 for ; Sun, 27 Feb 2022 03:23:08 -0800 (PST) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc; bh=KQFjp6KSOUdA2EyBlMXLUPpBuOUQpzwzaoQiUavE78k=; b=ZkS8KeBGzT6A0EkUXQiFvobeW4Bw5tNEXCXMNmFwdjMa76zbG6GzWFdgXkWAHIBibB 2t8xI+zU/NHeAjRrmHTW1qMclUv8Zx6vhNsfzv6MUaDrtZevG9APzzSoYwZfwKndA/9K BGua2OJ3vqW5vYT0K1HiXrolOHI8aX33vP9+bs/eIvZAbdEcqWQFEuKrUds0WgiVRBem nCe6J6sontnsLROKFrb8+NarWeoiMLuhtTyESwtZJK0n0MutaTcx+4uTRnrRasAJhptp Gnlh4hzn+CRXwBFyl4+IIapRMRTv4d6astRnbaWDRLQXpTpzeyUfWfwV0kPgCFJ6jJgG Cgog== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc; bh=KQFjp6KSOUdA2EyBlMXLUPpBuOUQpzwzaoQiUavE78k=; b=tZALrR97Ov76G2qifwepvKzp+pqD/ufEndH0e1TMPphSiKYwrqLRdXCkOQuJWPbKp9 zAU5Ryy5KybM8DJ42X9mHJA8SxYTg6my06MSax2E3yXTvjn+L7NOnE56166Q9MysRsk4 FjgYRMKYh7uTRN1KK9wEDqRDn6QjNc/bi7I3lAD0xor9QrA137LD85R2r6uVOsYOAQQ4 gwi1H9MNWF8nFoJpNQORNL8TLsw1raLxe+OdX464yNsKjOkyR9pYV8qZnczBdXbojx89 qS6cUG46FsI4OM8BSkUbytVueoP7H5vHnmVdPWlcK95MfGbHePfq0PVVRSjZoA/VuxYr m/mA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM532k8uIn7GAwAkIq7E5rgqFy0BpfyVxpY4vsQH3KH6FujmGu/SOU AYjDRiBPZCIw+nNA1BjU85S3GvS/DMV0lY57dOc= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyxYc86AfwxA8EnWL7g5msNHEAq1+MLjLHXKqvzy9F2Ds0CkNNTKfvgRW9XV0Yi6ds9OS29n9e0T/Vj8x3fX5A= X-Received: by 2002:a17:906:d9c4:b0:6cc:ecbd:3667 with SMTP id qk4-20020a170906d9c400b006ccecbd3667mr11602762ejb.645.1645960986983; Sun, 27 Feb 2022 03:23:06 -0800 (PST) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <9a206057-00b3-da6b-1adf-607a7af025a9@cs.auckland.ac.nz> <2d0ad1db-b6bf-b8c0-79dc-51643abbcc76@auckland.ac.nz> <601e0ed6-779e-e032-3800-ad2cfc7c8867@cs.auckland.ac.nz> <8387aefe-9018-8139-21d9-317812a7636b@cs.auckland.ac.nz> In-Reply-To: From: Dave Taht Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2022 06:22:53 -0500 Message-ID: To: Mike Puchol Cc: Doc Searls , Ulrich Speidel , "starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net" , u.speidel@auckland.ac.nz Content-Type: multipart/alternative; boundary="000000000000f182ef05d8fe27a7" Subject: Re: [Starlink] Starling and Ukraine (forked from Tonga) X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Sun, 27 Feb 2022 11:23:08 -0000 --000000000000f182ef05d8fe27a7 Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" This old story has come to mind a lot in the last few days. https://craphound.com/overclocked/Cory_Doctorow_-_Overclocked_-_When_Sysadmins_Ruled_the_Earth-A4.pdf Also, "the unwirer". One of my very few contacts in the ukraine https://twitter.com/olegkutkov was working on reverse engineering the starlink devices, as well as having been one of the developers of ubnt's 60Ghz P2P radios. I imagine that these directional devices are harder to detect and jam. A common problem is power, starlink eats a lot more than these do. longer range p2p radios on the existing 5ghz or 2.4 ghz bands would be easier to "hide" due to the noise of all the other wifi APs. Iridium is more man portable, micro-lte cells for cellphones also. Meshy store and forward applications over local areas would often be more useful than even (in)direct connections to the internet. --000000000000f182ef05d8fe27a7 Content-Type: text/html; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
This old story has come to mind a lot in the last few= days.


Also, "the unw= irer".=C2=A0

One of my very few contacts in t= he ukraine=C2=A0https://twitter.= com/olegkutkov was working on reverse engineering the starlink devices,= as well as having been one of the developers of ubnt's 60Ghz P2P radio= s.=C2=A0

I imagine that these directional devices = are harder to detect and jam. A common problem is power, starlink eats a lo= t more than these do.=C2=A0

longer range p2p radio= s on the existing 5ghz or 2.4 ghz bands would be easier to "hide"= due to the noise of all the other wifi APs.
Iridium is more = man portable, micro-lte cells for cellphones also. Meshy store and forward = applications over local areas would often be more useful than even (in)dire= ct connections to the internet.
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