From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-pg1-x52a.google.com (mail-pg1-x52a.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::52a]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id A195D3B2A4; Wed, 27 Sep 2023 14:21:18 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-pg1-x52a.google.com with SMTP id 41be03b00d2f7-578d78ffdbcso7251598a12.2; Wed, 27 Sep 2023 11:21:18 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20230601; t=1695838877; x=1696443677; darn=lists.bufferbloat.net; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :mime-version:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id:reply-to; bh=tluF5Gs7nizTUDXD2HJSsXy8MLhRMETgWynzax9duVY=; b=jMu1qF0wRQx2YntRm6P8hYsBWbpDMdOixv8WBinU1YQSFla77E+YJknnmJ20G2PRvJ JPhY8UmPCJa4zJ0CpQQCiv/a+IDFSSjrb1u/bOoIcVfT4GvfD3QapcpfbrNsJREwrogA AcVaDwnOK4OA/t+Qw1nJgDCkSGbl3ANxwK2CbbDdNavsGgfwfqCSalb91wLUOYIGZ/ZX o60XwiY8AKkarKNhDqM5Ml0gzTsjd73Gupy05pVXv3I/RltZ4p6GEbch0JmJhmx2eRM/ w0VejFT1lPUho/BPSacccUFiyBcYSaKVT/+znbGioeahrLLekm1yjp+kjUIPRq0ot6fq aqQA== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20230601; t=1695838877; x=1696443677; h=content-transfer-encoding:cc:to:subject:message-id:date:from :mime-version:x-gm-message-state:from:to:cc:subject:date:message-id :reply-to; bh=tluF5Gs7nizTUDXD2HJSsXy8MLhRMETgWynzax9duVY=; b=QEqVhuwQxtUAAqGCFeCQKxowI3bHoIEnQYvl7to3WfSONGiY5eQ3LcyECM2HOP4iAF hfzNCT1z+0j+g0LBqs5xvM207AMHAwSDVDHcH2jYPSEtG+pTZCKXi0WRdjvCADDaDEFs skg7EKUTi/jEcbCj7V5u60s1knmy00vgCmHzsZ9c+FawcWXvujoLcj+peyAwGBEkEWbV E1uFcBQBJba6m3Fu1EQZRdbwqAOsRlhV8PEhGMjY9AUZm+j32dAvyj2O6TZ+ZXW5HFLu wtQvr6X+2PQQbnMcQcdYqdyGVzncMePHBUUPNkNq33hPY2JJikDvC0no/EhJ2eQn8x75 Gpxg== X-Gm-Message-State: AOJu0YyWzw0F5JaX5NZne21E74umAzxIPIdtY/kvOPNtvT7tRWXjSapz gnJlJw5uE5gGCV8pfsHlbsQWZVmS9hBTfex23wV7Rh6N8sw= X-Google-Smtp-Source: AGHT+IGPcRD5Tzh3qv2JnoedzkMLkLFnkFt3asq9kD+CI/8/68ppxEkIKo/YkTPqLBTsPY419pX4SVN1W5xqW5ffJzM= X-Received: by 2002:a05:6a20:729e:b0:15e:927:aac8 with SMTP id o30-20020a056a20729e00b0015e0927aac8mr2890039pzk.10.1695838877043; Wed, 27 Sep 2023 11:21:17 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 From: Dave Taht Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2023 11:21:05 -0700 Message-ID: To: Dave Taht via Starlink , bloat , Rpm Cc: Jamal Hadi Salim Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: [Starlink] net neutrality back in the news X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2023 18:21:18 -0000 Jason just did a beautiful thread as to what was the original source of the network neutrality bittorrent vs voip bufferbloat blowup. https://twitter.com/jlivingood/status/1707078242857849244 Seeing all the political activity tied onto it since (and now again) reminds of two families at war about an incident that had happened generations and generations before, where the two sides no longer remembered why they hated each other so, but just went on hating, and not forgiving, and not moving on. Yes, there are entirely separate and additional NN issues, but the technical problem of providing common carriage between two very different network application types (voip/gaming vs file transfer) is thoroughly solved now, and if only all sides recognised at least this much, and made peace over it, and worked together to deploy those solutions, maybe, just maybe, we could find mutually satisfactory solutions to the other problems that plague the internet today, like security, and the ipv6 rollout. If anyone here knows anyone more political, still vibrating with 10+ years of outrage about NN on this fronts, on one side or the other, if you could sit them down, over a beer, and try to explain that at the start it was a technical problem nobody understood at the time, maybe that would help. --=20 Oct 30: https://netdevconf.info/0x17/news/the-maestro-and-the-music-bof.htm= l Dave T=C3=A4ht CSO, LibreQos