From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-io1-xd35.google.com (mail-io1-xd35.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d35]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id DC79F3CB37 for ; Thu, 4 Nov 2021 12:46:55 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-io1-xd35.google.com with SMTP id 2so4302848iou.1 for ; Thu, 04 Nov 2021 09:46:55 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20210112; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=52XRJyAcwDtzk6Y0hDRhNAVTQse18cl1Hr8DdcBdLso=; b=J3yDXuhVmTVwk2byksgRDVb0ljEysIY9yTeeIK5Wy+zhGKG9ogpSidQzwJjtnmQPn5 n0hoFvl9TQN93AFcxIHDDoBWzH8vmtw7dbD+Zf/JhFnqXFkSSiJvuHics2XdDN7PJI1b Kj498IiO2HKQiUjVInRxw+mKiSRXLJ5DDihxwbDPHL6/SsIkwV0m3EIV6RTb/5LB+KiQ tZqrcuBeXpnUMIc45cU2NDEEjQY/OMv5JXGHAE5OJuwMI+eZBDCcpTNM1+mjIKbJx7ii wz43Duq8u6oI9wNcld4eKkNozNnnLXvRfXGvrp0IH+7OkTY9RRrz8Wj6dxkaSzpJhvKm arSw== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20210112; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:cc:content-transfer-encoding; bh=52XRJyAcwDtzk6Y0hDRhNAVTQse18cl1Hr8DdcBdLso=; b=E6zcRJS87p5ESoqa4gFsOSmGkfld5tJkWsEZfkO6B0YDqd/OqWTdohINZqkONqqQON 3J07gQ0kY9SAhuJb+1ZukQVZQaNJ5+0M/MlFoQRatCNiueNUMF4bPnXjkUkGZvXIzZOg Fi1+TlkPUQtORJEiOj9CEnJv9NBC7iF6Bndc8088u0BnQ+ar+QngfwFjZymedDkGu9xo Wi3ANmcF7NwlNyVC23KbI4VF9EgPq/E5lCqDhf0MVIBAftyQHzVlfz/Bh7dhrTsGUuNd Am3jexWJTZ3mlPyv+NKQAh2hXVJ/b+XwxjVudKL5IHm+hWvmwN+Fi78tkcYnFFe3IUZL O2uA== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5303+kzTtwzVcQR5gcRPAud/dVVR9DappAkCic9M7dOeJ9yN/GDW +I2tiKNEPoW+ohGwYwrsV1tmYWwBNiZtxOtLvrCsuEd2yO8= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJzL9dKp0lv6g9SQ2dRbtz3MRj+yGJ8OvfgjQV59+vGF7rcE5zm3bemM1HT2oZd/6DC+f4SyzR1scNgI6PoOUv8= X-Received: by 2002:a02:954d:: with SMTP id y71mr4545354jah.83.1636044415138; Thu, 04 Nov 2021 09:46:55 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <7907F9D1-9511-4254-BD8F-701888EB6778@onholyground.com> In-Reply-To: <7907F9D1-9511-4254-BD8F-701888EB6778@onholyground.com> From: Dave Taht Date: Thu, 4 Nov 2021 09:46:42 -0700 Message-ID: To: Darrell Budic Cc: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [Starlink] Starlink tidbits from NANOG X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Thu, 04 Nov 2021 16:46:56 -0000 I have an ipv4/23 lying around since the 90s. I don't want to sell it, but my co-owner and I would really like a dishy and a static IPv4/IPv6 address... and service for life... and whatever else we could negotiate. :) On Thu, Nov 4, 2021 at 8:26 AM Darrell Budic wrote= : > > I was at NANOG in Minneapolis, and got a chance to ask a couple question = of a Starlink Network Engineer who=E2=80=99s attending. I was already talki= ng to him about Starlink=E2=80=99s network efforts (see below) but it was n= ice to meet in person. Don=E2=80=99t quote me on any of this, but here=E2= =80=99s a few tidbits this list may appreciate: > > - Starlink is expanding their own network operations, and is connecting t= o more IXPs. They were already on SIX in Seattle, have connected to DECIX N= Y, and are in the process of connecting to ChIX in Chicago. As I run ChIX, = I had a good excuse to talk to them about other things. :) IXPs and their o= wn networks are in the works for Europe and other areas as well. It was my dream they would realize the huge number of small isps that would like to peer with starlink and leverage those. I'd like to restore the original, routable internet back out to the edges where it belongs. But that's me. The whole "Terminal" language bothers me, when there's so much more that could be created locally along the edge if only stuff could move there. Email back to the edge, videoconfernening services across villiages.... > - They have been obtaining more v4 addresses, but I don=E2=80=99t know if= they have enough to not do CGNAT. I don't think they do yet, but it seems = like it may be a long term target. I keep hoping for IETF action politically on opening up 0/8 and 240/4. There are of course a vast swath of military/8 assignments... I've lost track did the post office ever sell any off? There's space left in 44/8 too if they are willing to talk to ardc but that would have to go to an open bid. > - v6 is deliberately not fully functional, but they know some of use are = using it and it will eventually be fully activated. May be waiting on the r= egional connectivity, so will be intersting to see if changes for some area= s and not others as they roll it out. Deliberate... well, if you ship 10 year old openwrt software to users (we'd made a big push for ipv6 there before ipv6 launch day in 2013), and don't keep up... I guess you could call that deliberate. I'm pretty happy with openwrt 20.2.1. IMHO: ipv6 really requires a modern kernel and tools, not less than 4 years old, to deploy well. Maybe there's a worthwhile SDR stack, I don't know... Lately it seems like ipv6 things have been moving backwards with flow offloads in certain chipsets being very limited or very buggy with ipv6. Offloads in general have been cropping up as an increasing problem - lot's of enthusiasm for putting in RED into nvidia's cards apparently. > - They hate Google's outsourced NOC as much as the rest of us Do say more. :) I'm told google at least have a very nice set of tools for looking at the characteristics of interchange traffic. > - New ground stations with more capacity are coming (and will be upgrades= ). Would so love universities to get in on some of those. I remember the IMP. > They are using waves back to regional DCs now, but will be moving to dark= fiber over the next year or two "waves"? > - the new satellites have more than 2 lasers, and there is enough capacit= y on them to do routing. no details on how or what protocols, alas Still on a custom mac, though, I suppose. Thx for all the teasers, this is the most info I've seen in months. Way better than hitting reload on reddit. :P > - new birds also have 2-3x more ku bandwidth than first gen up and down? My take on the up problem was that it was regulatory. ? (and they really need ack-filtering) > - new dishes are in the works, v4 coming with lower power use, more capac= ity, not round any more > - larger dishes coming for commercial apps > - as we know, they aren=E2=80=99t doing any AQM yet, but it sounds like i= t may be in the works and we may see it in new code in 4-6 months. Not my g= uys department, so no more details. fq is a better start. Just someone telling me under pain of death, "dave, you can't talk for X months, but we're going to do cake/fq-codel/pie/something" would be comforting. There's a whole internet elsewhere left to fix, starlink getting it right and a little publicity around it would do wonders... and certainly wifi is highest on my list. As it is, I got annoyed enough last week to try and get the autorate sensing code to work well on starlink. There's a prototype now that seems to be working well on lte, see here: https://forum.openwrt.org/t/cakes-autorate-ingress-testing-n= eeded/108848/186 Testers wanted. Fixing fixed wireless has been a pain point far, far, far greater than the disappointment I felt at starlink so totally missing the bufferbloat problem initially. It will take a decade to sort out 5g, 4-6 months more for starlink oh! yes! yes! yes! More news on that as it happens. > - it=E2=80=99s encrypted up and down. I didn=E2=80=99t know that yet, but= I may have just missed it. I did. But it's really hard to trust that black box and the world has otherwise shifted to e2e encryption. > > -Darrell > _______________________________________________ > Starlink mailing list > Starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink --=20 I tried to build a better future, a few times: https://wayforward.archive.org/?site=3Dhttps%3A%2F%2Fwww.icei.org Dave T=C3=A4ht CEO, TekLibre, LLC