From mboxrd@z Thu Jan 1 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: from mail-io1-xd33.google.com (mail-io1-xd33.google.com [IPv6:2607:f8b0:4864:20::d33]) (using TLSv1.2 with cipher ECDHE-RSA-AES128-GCM-SHA256 (128/128 bits)) (No client certificate requested) by lists.bufferbloat.net (Postfix) with ESMTPS id D54833B2A4 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 2021 11:47:16 -0400 (EDT) Received: by mail-io1-xd33.google.com with SMTP id l64so16366108ioa.7 for ; Mon, 21 Jun 2021 08:47:16 -0700 (PDT) DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=gmail.com; s=20161025; h=mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date:message-id:subject:to :content-transfer-encoding; bh=wLHPHkESWM5Nx28ptRXoMrZ5vLi6nU/QnElO8siv5lg=; b=r97b0TgB4Jtuo3E7/15/etk30EqmxzOVBBxPlTevvJIxqDkivNopjUqECsu7cqaks7 J2kQsrCIm9XGayatV/2kOBECDlryn3w/EKUo8YG+JHxDXAK7zCwCoNRpTwwYwsoS4nzY kyS6dyKoSEYM2/vvoYzN4U8QohjmU9EpaJAL96dicKoIzzd3w4IzHVJ/vLS5i+tU2gF5 zAeh/YXJb8z8IPVVg7WueiwUtwDji2eutoKvwvei+5QK/yLWMLANo8j0ZXjTLHyUWrQR ciIK83rQRicC4nZd7E3V8XoT6NewAUzFwN4Zseq5LX63WXXnXWYvh8cBjSSjUZ2Jv9P9 ZljQ== X-Google-DKIM-Signature: v=1; a=rsa-sha256; c=relaxed/relaxed; d=1e100.net; s=20161025; h=x-gm-message-state:mime-version:references:in-reply-to:from:date :message-id:subject:to:content-transfer-encoding; bh=wLHPHkESWM5Nx28ptRXoMrZ5vLi6nU/QnElO8siv5lg=; b=YKTUrKDVtoYVW47xLyzkH4ymuqw446CCQRZf6aCddqlWspszwWir5JD876y7yQmmfT +b2i7VRXTnoNn8SZJO6L7uvAtXGdr+5q6ud0QlTKl9z2SKT8Y8lJ7P14TAQr8avnWuUT DhdUVkya95Q1H9GDCOB0s0TjuEXWFg/yjJOkPdcRrHr2C/cO8L2X5bBDKv30bj062Vpx LtStxh3KL5PHjH6XJ+QqyumMYrDxxcEhIiZ3N5Xs9NKOMxSTIfQk6fjmxWpsr9TKq9QY se6ulW3rgrz3wXV8ZwmT/nyaRYN4OBxk/Dof0mCBK3jKpsY1hrHSVX62FYuMzH88+D2o A7ww== X-Gm-Message-State: AOAM5331LJOVj9LDfVEqQFSsQeH3+kxtMtwVuNSY2krUxKtQtqH2Mp7f q/UkLn904Bgd7lXUlMlrci2yrthlGiXwlkegHT/iWNrXuy4= X-Google-Smtp-Source: ABdhPJyO/QJhtNB1Gv7OuoymuNWX7dVu3EbySW2ZZLWnJINT6IuRIah0ZbNYWamOO9jBqQNKvGAkiLM8QSRb5TKNP/E= X-Received: by 2002:a02:cd9c:: with SMTP id l28mr18221618jap.61.1624290435901; Mon, 21 Jun 2021 08:47:15 -0700 (PDT) MIME-Version: 1.0 References: <20160.1624287984@localhost> In-Reply-To: <20160.1624287984@localhost> From: Dave Taht Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2021 08:47:03 -0700 Message-ID: To: Michael Richardson , starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable Subject: Re: [Starlink] on using and debugging lossless congestion control (RFC3168 ECN) X-BeenThere: starlink@lists.bufferbloat.net X-Mailman-Version: 2.1.20 Precedence: list List-Id: "Starlink has bufferbloat. Bad." List-Unsubscribe: , List-Archive: List-Post: List-Help: List-Subscribe: , X-List-Received-Date: Mon, 21 Jun 2021 15:47:16 -0000 On Mon, Jun 21, 2021 at 8:06 AM Michael Richardson wrote= : > > Dave Taht wrote: > > It came up recently that a lot of folk don't like the idea of dropp= ing > > packets as a congestion > > control mechanism. Like loss or not... the fundamental paper on thi= s > > subject is Van Jacobson and Mike Karels: > > > "On congestion avoidance and control" > > > http://web.stanford.edu/class/cs244/papers/CongestionControl.pdf > > I saved this post a long time ago. > http://www.sandelman.ca/mcr/humour/vanj-enet-posting.txt That was a *great* piece of history thx. And he referenced greg chesson's work on XTP, ( https://grainger.illinois.edu/alumni/distinguished/9560 ) Greg was an early consultant to the bufferbloat project... he sadly passed before we ever had a chance to jam together. https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=3D9795462 > There is another one about how he crashed Interop, which I don't know whe= re I > put. More folk should have seen van's codel preso at ietf 84. It was the very very early days of webrtc. https://archive.org/details/video1_20191129 > > -- > ] Never tell me the odds! | ipv6 mesh netwo= rks [ > ] Michael Richardson, Sandelman Software Works | IoT architec= t [ > ] mcr@sandelman.ca http://www.sandelman.ca/ | ruby on rails= [ > > > --=20 Latest Podcast: https://www.linkedin.com/feed/update/urn:li:activity:6791014284936785920/ Dave T=C3=A4ht CTO, TekLibre, LLC